100+ Flips a Year. 3,000+ Loans. | Inside the King James Lending Machine

I have 500 grand. I have a million. I have two million. I have 5 million sitting here. How do I use that to keep it growing? And investing go hand in hand. You cannot be a successful. You know what I mean? So where does all that come from? One thing you can say a lot of things about me, but I'm a person that you can trust, >> right? >> You can say a lot about you know

what everybody. If J if James says he will do this, you'll you can believe it that'll happen. >> Marketing and sales is the lifeblood of this game. >> Yeah. So that's what you're really having to do is you list under value typically and you have the best product possible my borrowers better service better customer like I said when I walked in here I said hey what can I do better for you that's what I'm interested in

the numbers will be the numbers I don't give a [ __ ] I don't care I just want to deliver better service it's just something I've noticed my entire life I'm not really that gifted but I'm very obsessive I'm just thinking about it all the time like how do I improve how do I get better? How do I what can I be do to get be better? >> Welcome to another episode of Pick Up the Phone

podcast. I'm your host, so Janis. I'm the CEO of Vancom. I help people with marketing and AI. Today's guest is James Toller. He is the number one lender in Houston and Galveston County. According to some reports that we uh looked at recently, um he has 3,000 loans that he's done since 2021. in about four or five years that he's been in business and he is currently doing over a 100 flips a year. So, James, that's a

heck of an introduction, man. I'm happy to [laughter] happy to have you here, man. Thank you for being here. >> Oh, man. Thank you. Appreciate you. >> Absolutely. >> Um, man, let's uh let's get started with um sort of your journey, James. I I'd love to get to know what made Kings James Lending as successful as it is today. And I think I already know a couple of things. you know, but um just you know, in

in your own words, I' love to know your story. Where are you born in Houston or where you from? >> Yeah, I was born in Houston and I moved to Baytown when I was in the third grade. >> Okay. >> What got me in Baytown was um Uncle Roy and Aunt Georgie. That was So, uh that's my cousin's Joel Ostein. >> Really? >> Yeah. I'm We're second cousins. >> Get out of here. >> Yeah. [laughter] So,

uh, we grew up in Houston, born in Houston. Uncle Roy and Aunt Georgie is Dodie Ostein's parents. Okay. Right. So, we moved to Baytown. My my dad and I did. >> Mhm. >> To watch Uncle Roy and Aunt Georgie. >> Mhm. >> Which was that's kind of what got us over there and really kind of changed my life to be honest, which I that's Joel Ostein's dad. This is a long time ago, but really changed my

dad's life uh to a large degree. He helped him get into business. >> Okay. >> John Ostein was really big in uh helping his businesses, >> right? >> That was he was courage businesses would help and he really helped my dad get going in the right mindset and really helped him >> succeed, you know, to some degree and influenced me very heavily too from a young age. >> Wow. That way. How would you say John Ostein

>> made that of an impact into your dad's life? How did he and when you say that he helped a lot of businesses in what way? And in >> I give you example. >> I had a young young man uh told me told me yesterday he said, "James, have you ever felt like an imposttor?" >> Felt like an imposttor like imposttor syndrome. Have you ever heard that? Like I I don't deserve >> Right. I think that's

common for a lot of people, especially in the beginning. You haven't had a lot of success. It's like, do I deserve to be here? Can I make it >> right? >> And uh I said, you know, I don't want to get too religious, but I but I did tell him, I said, you know, I think that's straight from the devil. >> The devil wants to make sure he keeps you down. He does not want to to

uplift you. And if I can get you thinking, hey, do I deserve this or am I good enough for this? straight from the pits of hell, >> right? >> Totally. So I said, you know, getting your mindset in a place where you are capable, you you have everything you ever need, you already have it, you you're capable of anything you want to do. >> That's all nonsense type thinking. And he asked me, have I ever felt

that? And I've never felt that way. But I that's why I don't I don't give credence to that kind of stuff, right? I I do believe that I'm good enough and I'm I can make this and >> confidence and investing go hand in hand. You cannot be a successful you know I mean so where does all that come from? >> It's to me faith plays a role in all that to be honest with you. Yeah. It

h it just for me anyway. >> You know how do you >> get up every day and deal with the good, the bad, the ugly >> on a continual basis. It's because I have faith that I'll I'll fight through it. I can I can overcome whatever is put in front of me and all the challenges and everything you're getting going through you can. So >> to start there that's kind of was something that led my dad

down a different path which then helped me lead down a different path you know and that's >> from John >> my childhood. Yeah. From childhood. Yeah. >> John Ostein. >> Yes. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. >> And so [clears throat] would you say that John Ostein helped out a lot of people also? >> Well that's why that's the largest church in America. Lakewood, right? Well, that that wasn't done by Joel. It was started by John, >>

right? >> Which he started originally at a a feed store. >> Mhm. >> He couldn't have started any lowly, [laughter] you know, a feas literally a feed store. That's where and from there he kind of grew it up. But he he was a very very instrumental in businessmen and helped my dad a lot and >> which >> in a sense he was like a performance kind of executive coach for a lot of businesses. >> I think

so. Yeah. From a faith-based perspective, right? using. Yeah. And so influenced me heavily. Um I didn't get that, you know, getting in real estate's a vehicle that was down the road, but the mindset was >> was imprinted oned early age. Yeah. And that was doing uh >> so when I moved to Baytown, I graduated. Then I moved uh to Austin to do toll. My dad had a a highway maintenance company. So I went up there and

did the toll roads >> uh pretty much right out of high school. And I >> So you worked for his company? Yeah, I worked for his company out for a number of years and >> Mhm. >> U you met my wife up there. >> Oh yeah, you and Maggie out there in Austin. >> Met Maggie in Austin. Yeah. >> Very cool. >> Um to kind of get, you know, time went on. I ended up uh breaking

off and I didn't know what I was going to do, you know, and I >> and I was watching HGTV. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Got the bug. >> Yeah. And you know, well, I was thinking, >> you know, you're seeing these people make 80,000 70. This was, you know, a long time ago now. Probably 10 years ago, nine 10 years ago, but you know, 80 70 80,000. I'm like, man, there was nothing there that I couldn't

do, >> right? >> I didn't know what what they did fully, but I know there's nothing there that I was not capable of. So, >> uh, what ended up happening was I I called my sister. I said, "Look, I don't know what I'm doing." >> You know, I don't want to lose my shirt. I don't have a lot of money. Yeah. I don't have a clue what I'm doing. Would you partner with me? >> Right. >>

And uh so we we bought a deal from a net worth. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> When was your when was your first deal? How old were you? >> How was I was I was about 10 years nine 10 years ago, something like that. So, uh 30 or 20 29 something like that. >> 28 29 right. >> Which I had I had some rentals that I had bought. I wouldn't consider myself full-time investor, but I

had rentals that I had been buying through years. Yeah. >> Um >> while you're working for your dad's company. >> Yes. Exactly. Yeah. I had bought some foreclosures and I had rental some rental income, but nothing >> nothing crazy >> crazy full-time. Yeah. >> Right. >> But, uh, >> you know, started going, we did our first deal. Didn't know a thing. Made $4,000 >> on your first deal. >> That was total. So, we split it. So,

we made two,000 each. >> Yeah. 2,000 each. You wouldn't >> Yeah. But, you know, if you probably factor in your your time investment, it was probably a loss, right? >> Oh, no doubt. I said, if I keep doing this, I'm going to be under a bridge. Yeah, you know, some I I can't make $2,000 in four months. No, it was it was 500. You know what I mean? [laughter] >> But but instrumental in >> confidence, right?

I can do this, >> right? >> So, uh kind of understood the process a little bit more. >> The second one, I did it differently. I found it. I negotiated it and we ended up making like 60,000 on that one. We split 3030. Beautiful. And then from there, I kind of figured out I'm this way with was what I learned a little bit about myself is I don't ever start off better than most people. >> Mhm.

>> I usually start off below most people. It's just something I've noticed my entire life. I'm not really that gifted, >> right? >> Really not. I I mean, but >> I'm very obsessive. >> Yeah. >> And I can't put things down. Almost like autistic to some degree. You mean like I I just stuff stays in my head. So I just thinking about it all the time like how do I improve? How do I get better? How

do I >> what can I be do to get be better and you know how can I involve people? So I'm always thinking about that. So I I gradually get improve you know what I mean? It's it's not one >> huge swoop. It's just slow improvements >> from being obsessed about it all to be honest with you. And then so from there after the second deal I jumped into one by myself for the first time >>

on your third deal. >> Yeah. My third deal. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh it was it was >> property in Crosby was pretty good. >> How did you find that one? >> That was one somebody heard that I had bought a home. >> I started putting it on social media and stuff like I mean somebody heard I bought one. Hey I've I've got I know of somebody. Right. And I went out there looked at it

all. I like it. they'll do it. And >> [snorts] >> um so I I and I'll never forget this. So I bought that one alone, you know, that was the first one and uh I'd done one deal, sold it, one deal, sold it, bought my next one. >> Right. >> So I'd done one at a time, >> right? >> Well, I had a a a pastor that called me up after I bought that one and he

was selling his he was selling all of his assets, >> right, >> and moving. It was a [clears throat] property on the water. He had had four or five people go out there and uh me and him probably talk for four hours. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Probably probably [snorts] why you don't like, you know, you'd rather just sell off leads, you know, because that a that's not the funnest thing, right? You're it's 8:00 at night and

you're in the driveway and you're talking, >> you know, on a sales appointment. But, >> uh, that one I picked up for 180. I put 20 in it and I got 280. >> Okay. 180. You put 20 in it. >> Yeah. And I got and I ended up getting 280. But >> So you made after sales and commissions maybe what 60? >> 60 or something like that. But >> I hadn't done two at one time. >>

Okay. >> So you remember I was in the other one and I thought, well, shoot. I I don't know if I feel comfortable. >> Oh, so you're still on your third. >> I'm still on my third one, right? And this one popped up. Yes. And that in that third one, there was maybe 20 to be made. Yeah. 18 to 20. It wasn't a lot, but this one was a lot of money. 60,000. >> You can't you

can't pass up on it. >> So, but I've never done two at a time. >> Yeah. So, what made you take that leap? >> That's a good question. >> To do two. >> He gets back to that confidence. You know, I will figure it out. I don't know how it'll play out. I I've done one or two of these now. I don't I don't know exactly what I'm doing fully yet, but >> that's how you grow,

right? So, I I just jumped out there to be honest with you and >> figured it out as I went along. >> Yeah. [laughter] And at first I feel like whenever you're starting flipping you don't have a sense of liquidity and how important it is, right? So you're like, "Ah, yeah, it's fine. It'll figure it out." And it's tough if you >> especially when you go over, right? Yeah. That one didn't need a whole lot. I

was 20 grand. It was very minimal. Uh when Crosby was also very minimal. So that was helpful, but it wasn't like some >> you get in these that are 80 90,000 all of a sudden they're 160 or 150 cuz >> right, >> you know what I mean? >> It can go up pretty heavy. Exactly. >> Absolutely. >> Um so that was kind of how that played out and I jumped into that second one and then from

there once those two deals sold off I didn't start off with a bunch of money. You know people think I'm >> a trust fund baby or something you know or had a bunch. I did not. And I just slowly saved my money on each deal. But once I had those two closed I had a little money at that point. That's more >> more money than I've ever had. Yeah. >> Yeah. You probably have like 100 grand

in the account. >> I do. Yeah. That's about where Yeah. Something like that. And I I went from not having a whole lot to a little bit. >> Yeah. >> And then >> I did it again. >> Right. Yeah. And now more confidence, right? >> Yes. >> And so now you're doing maybe now you're on your fourth flip. Now you sell it. Now you have cash in the account. Now you have confidence. You have the experience.

You know how to do it. You have the trades. You have the contractors. You're title. You're everyone. Right. So the team's already in place. You have liquidity. It's time to go now, right? >> Yeah. So what happened next? Well, I you know, it's kind of interesting. The the deal that I did with my sister, um the contractor that I work with, his car broke down in the driveway and his wife would drive him to his work

and pick him up, right? [laughter] And uh so flipping is all about contractors at the end of the day, right? It's really all about construction actually, right? And so that was an enormous find >> was finding him and and we built a really good trust with each other that he would take care of me and I took care of him. I still work with him. >> Really? >> Then this Yes. >> 10 years ago. >> 10

years ago. I still work with him. We And we work a lot. I talked to him this morning. >> Matter of fact, he was uh >> you know, think about this. This is something that I try to do. >> It's really important to me. So, when I met him, his cars broke down in the driveway. His wife's picking him up now. He lives on an acre on the water. [laughter] >> Got a beautiful home. Great guy.

Amazing. Right. You try to leave people better off. >> You know what I mean? Better off than you found. Not that that always happens, but your your goal is >> to always leave people a little better off. That's what I've tried to do, >> right? >> That's incredible, man. Yeah. >> But a lot of my contractors I still I don't really lose a lot of contractors. Uh >> it's kind of like >> a lot of I

I have mostly long-term relationships if you think about it. Like most of my life, like when I've dated somebody, it's usually been long term. Just about everyone. I've I've always been that way to some degree. If the other person >> takes two to >> It takes two time. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. In any relationship. Yeah. >> Yes. But I've I've usually always been more of a long-term guy. I try to treat you treat you right, you know,

the best that I can, but you're not going to take advantage of me and I'm I can take advantage of you, right? So, it's it's got to be a mutual respect thing. But that's kind of what I've done. I've I've had unusual relationships that way. >> Yeah. Uh, >> that's awesome. >> Yeah, but that's how you treat people, right? And all that sort of thing. But >> yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, anyway, that was kind of

my journey there. And from there, I just scaled, >> right? >> I started putting the pieces together. I started finding the right contractors. I started finding private money. >> Mh. >> As you do more and more and more, people start hearing about you, you know, >> the money comes and finds you. >> They find you, you know, and uh so that's kind of, you know, I would start getting, you know, here's 300,000. I had one lady,

she got a divorce. She had about 700 $800,000. >> Yeah. And u she was actually called me to buy a home that I had. >> Yeah. >> And we she called me up. We went and I went and showed it to her and I said, you know, when I heard her story what she had, she said, "James, I've got about seven 7800,000. I want to buy some houses cash and live off the rental income." I said,

"Ma'am, >> I know I'm selling you this was my home, too, right?" Yeah. >> I know I'm selling you this home, but >> this is not the home for you. >> Yeah. >> You You don't want to buy something at 100 cents on the dollar, right? Yeah, you just >> Yeah, >> you don't want to do that. And And I just She was kind of like, "Well, you're trying not to sell me this home. Like, I'm

It's your home. You don't want to sell it to me?" So, we kind of built some trust there where I would >> And that me and her, she helped me a lot in the beginning. She gave me all of her money. >> Really? >> Every bit every penny of it. >> No kidding. >> Yeah. Wow. >> And I would just keep it cycling. >> Yeah. >> One after another after another. Um, you know, for let's say

there's a private investor out there and they're looking to put their money to work. Uh, could you explain to me the pitch that you gave her and how you convince her to invest all her money with you? What is >> That's good. >> Yeah. >> It's been a little while ago, but I >> I started by letting her know if I'm if I have a house and you're here to buy a house and I'm not here

to sell you that home. I'm listening to what you want. >> Right. Yeah. >> So, >> starting off the right way. >> Starting off right like hold on now. This guy >> is thinking one, he's listening to me. He's thinking about what's best for me. And now he's giving a plan what's best for me. >> Right. >> There's trust involved there. So, it's almost like when you push somebody away >> Yeah. >> you kind of pull

them to you a little bit. You on that thought? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I I think that started and she saw the genuiness in me, right? She's like, "This is a pretty good guy." Like, I think I would say she thought obviously she had to feel that way. And I always took care of her, paid her. You know, what happened was over time I I kept her all her money and it's as I got

into lending, I didn't need it anymore, right? I just didn't. So, I handed it all back to her. And, you know, I don't wish the best for her, but it >> What kind of returns were you offering to her? >> It was like 10%. I just 10% on her money. >> There was no points. It was, hey, first lean, wire money here. Like, it wasn't even like ARVs and it was kind of got to that point,

you know, I need I need 180,000 and this is >> this is >> kid handed all up front. >> Yeah. All the rehab and everything. >> Yeah. Everything just all Yeah. All of it up front and I would I'd run them and I'd get in and out of them and you did I did a bunch of them. >> Yeah. >> She trusted me. >> Yeah. >> But it gets back to are you trustworthy? So that might

be >> Yeah. >> You know, how would you handle that? you know what's your judgment and a lot of my time I think people in this business mess up as they focus too much on the construction you need to find good contractors right but you don't want to spend all your time on constru you need to be spending it on the marketing and sales that's why when you do marketing like you you that's an enormous asset

yeah >> to to everybody because >> without that the wheel turning right what happens is people flip a house they stop all their marketing all sells. They focus on that one house and it takes and it might take longer, especially right now, right? Some of these houses are sitting. So, you look up and four, five, six months went by. You ain't made a dollar. >> Yeah. >> It finally sells. Then you got seller contribution and hire,

you know, and all this [ __ ] You >> pipeline's dry >> and your pipeline's dry. You thought you were going to make 50 grand and you made 22, [laughter] you know, >> because you had to take 15 down and then you had seven seller contribut. So the game is to continually People say, "How James, how could you do so many deals?" It's cuz it's always running. I have the Spigot running fulltime. Yeah. All the time.

And >> in different areas, too, you know, like from what I from what I heard from you earlier. >> When um when we did, I think this is something that we spoke about before we started the podcast. Um I had a a guy that does AI for me and I'm like, "Hey, I I have a client and he wants to find all of the DSCR loans." um all of the borrowers that are doing hard money in

Houston so that he could offer DSCR products to them and he said uh go and pull some some lenders out there and we found I think we pulled like three examples of DA trust two of them were [laughter] so uh yeah you're you're definitely appearing quite often on on all of those um online uh county from the deed of trust so we we see it a lot so man kudos to you man um >> I would

say just on that. Just a quick thought on that. >> You're only as good as your team. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, when when you look at >> You have a big team, huh? >> Very Yeah. Very very well. The culture is there. You know, my wife runs >> the back office. So, yeah. >> You know, when you talk about a process, like how could I like if you came to me and said, "James, I

got a smoking deal. There's there's a foreclosure coming up. I need to close this tomorrow." >> Right? >> I could do it, >> right? >> Like how many lenders out there could close a deal in 10 hours? >> Not a lot, >> right? So that comes down to your organization, your team, your trustee, right? Your docs have got to be everybody's got to be in line >> prepared >> to do what? To take care of that

customer, >> right? >> So everybody's got the same agenda, you know, and so >> I can only do so much. >> But it's at the end of the day, it's the team with which your organization flows. And that comes down to Rob Trigg. You know, Rob Trigg we brought on from Jet Lending. Yeah. It was an enormous asset, enormous person to to bring on. I mean, he's incredible guy >> for you. >> You'd be he's been

enormous. >> Yeah. >> Find uh and a great person, you know, just >> culture fit. What I've learned is you can make more money, >> but what's it do to your culture, >> right? >> Because because for the short time you might sales might go up, but you could very well be and and I've had people do that to me. >> What's that? >> Erode my culture, >> right? or just come in and just just scrape

it up. >> Huh? >> Just scrape it up. Scrape your culture that you've already been building and then all of a sudden you have to start from scratch. >> I got to start over or I got rid of luckily I got rid of them fast enough where it didn't affect it too much. But >> right >> that's your culture of what you're building is the real I think as as I've learned I go from myself right

I'm one guy I'm flipping I watch HGTV and all of a sudden I'm flipping a house to having you know 15 people that work for you. Yeah. How did that happen? Right. >> Right. But the culture is something that I've learned more and more and more how important that is and nobody can get in the middle of that. And it doesn't matter how good you are from a sales or >> you have to fit. >> You

with me on that thought? >> Absolutely. Yeah. I have uh you know I have some someone on my team too. You know sometimes they're amazing at what they do but sometimes I don't see the mindset being a fully there. And so from a leadership standpoint, you you have to make a decision. You know, do I keep this person on even though their mindset is not fitting our mindset entirely? If you're not fully invested in the vision

that we're building right now, then you don't really belong here. And it's as simple as that for me. >> It should be. Yeah. Now, that's >> I've in the past maybe overweighed sales and business. Mhm. >> I'm speaking from experience for me screwing up [laughter] >> that that that's less important. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. And and it's because it affects everybody else and everything else. You you want everything seamless. It's like I'll give you example.

>> So, you know, yesterday >> we uh we raised kids. We raised money >> for uh toys for uh >> foster kids. >> Okay. And we joined in on a it was an individual, really good guy. His name is Rob Rob Linder. And he's been doing it three years. The first year they raised he raised $2,000. Last year he raised $4,000. This year we all got involved. >> And we raised $30,000. >> Holy cow. >> $30,000.

Can you believe that? For for uh >> for kids. >> For kids. And >> all of it is going to go towards >> every bit of it. 100% of it. Yeah. And um but think about that from a culture, right? And all of our team got involved in that. Yeah. >> Everybody had a common goal, common vision and to see that happen, right? It does something to the inner, hey, this is this is important. And I

and I've I've been slow. I I think that's very important to do things like that. You know what I mean? Just just things outside yourself for the community to better the community, right? And we kind of went all out for it all. I'm and I'm glad we did. But, uh, stuff like that is is a culture. It uplifts it, >> right? >> You with me on that? Yeah. This is We're here. It's more than just business.

>> Yeah. >> I love that. I want to get into how you got to having 15 people on your team. Um, and I want to I want to eventually build up to that. Right now, let's go back to you right after flipping. uh you're scaling, you're building your team, you're you're doing more flips. At what point did you know because and I'm sure this probably happened, right? Because you have p access to private capital. At what

point did you know, okay, this scaling thing is is good, but the money is also in lending. I should probably start a lending company. When did that happen? >> I was there was no intention to that. I I had a buddy of mine who his lender backed out on him. And [clears throat] uh he said, "James, I I'm in a bind. I got to close this deal. Sellers got another offer." >> You know how this kid

is, right? You know, uh my lender backed out. I thought they were going to do it. They're not. >> Uh >> I know you have some money. >> Yeah. >> Would you be open to helping me? >> Right. That's how I started. [laughter] >> That's what happened. >> Yeah. >> And I went over to the It was like five minutes from my house. I went over there. I looked at it. I liked it. Liked the deal.

Uh, >> and at that point you had cash in the account. >> Oh, I had Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes. You You do 50 60 flips a year, but I mean, you going to stack up some money, you know. I mean, you know, pretty pretty quick. >> So, u I went I It was $116,000. I went straight to the bank. I got a cashier's check and I went straight to title. So, he called me and in

two hours I had it funded. [laughter] >> You already had the condidal commitment in. They just drew up. They already had the doc legal docs for the other guy. They just moved it to my name. You just change your name. That's it. >> And I just went and got the cash. I went straight from the house, my house to that house and straight to the bank and then straight to title. So in two hours it funded.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. And that was the first one I've ever done. Like >> what was was the deal size on the first one? >> It was like 150,000 something like that. It wasn't that much. >> Okay. >> Uh I just did it straight cash. >> Yeah. >> And you know it was like 30,000 in rehab, something like that. And I just No, I didn't get I just escroed it back. Okay. >> Yeah. And as he

wanted it, I just handed it to him. Yeah. >> Sure. Uh, and from there >> people said, "Hey, I heard you did this." >> Yeah. >> I didn't do that to start a lending company. >> Really? >> Yes. I did that to help a buddy. Yeah. >> Buddy called me up. Hey, I need your help. Okay. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to lose this deal. Then from there, people said, "Hey, I heard you did that. Would

you do it for me?" Right. >> Lending is a lot about trust, right? If you actually >> if you actually get down to the core of it, right? Because I'm banking on you to deliver what you your commitments to me, >> right? >> In that case, he didn't he didn't do it. Well, >> yeah. >> One thing you can say a lot of things about me, but I am a person that you can trust, >> right?

>> You can say a lot about you know what every but if J if James says he will do this, you'll you can believe it that'll happen. I think that's lending. There's an element of that of a lot of do with that. Yeah. >> Yeah. There's trust like he will do what he said. Yeah. Now, I might not do what you want me to do, >> right? >> But we'll agree upon that upfront, right? I mean,

is it going to be, "Hey, can you do this?" No, I won't do that. But I'll do what I tell you I'm >> Yeah. So, that that's a little >> that's that's very interesting, James. Uh that's kind of how my marketing company started. Also, Bangcom, um I was running I was doing just flips, right, and wholesales primarily. I got really good at finding leads and one of my buddies said, "Hey, man, you're really good at finding

leads. Could you help me out?" And I said, "Sure, I'll help you out." And so I, you know, I hired one cold caller for him and then by the time I knew it, we have like six, eight because he has like students under his belt, whatever. >> And I look at the numbers and I'm like, "Holy cow, my marketing cost has gone down significantly. I have no marketing costs because his callers are paying for my callers."

So I'm like, "Okay, there's got to be something here." And I started thinking about it and that's how Vangcom started, just from helping helping others. It will never go out of a like marketing and sales is the lifeblood of this game. I mean, >> it all starts everybody misses it because it all starts with >> right. Yeah. Because they they get caught up in their deal and they miss >> the future. It's the pipeline. >> The

only way to do that many deals or to wholesale a bunch of volume or do a bunch of loans is always, >> you know, if you got 500 deals and say you got 40 deals on the pipe, they all hit at different times. You know how that is, right? get stuck in title. Yeah, >> you got I gota build all kinds of stuff like airship by all kinds of stuff. >> Title issues. >> You have to

have such a large pipeline that they all hit at different times. >> Mhm. >> And sometimes a deal will come up like we had one last week. It came up. We we closed in like two days. >> Yeah. >> Just just cash, you know, bought it for like 70k or something. >> You guys bought it for yourselves though on that one? >> No, we were wholesaling it so it needed a lease back. They got back they

got out yesterday. Mhm. >> Uh but something like that we'll buy for 70k just cash and then we might wholesale it for 85 or something or 88 or whatever and just make 15. >> Yeah. >> But I'll just do it straight. >> Very cool. >> Yeah. The problem was was nobody wanted to buy because the lease back >> one of those kind of things. So we held money back. We do that a lot. That sort of

thing. We just kind of buy it and then let them get out and then then I'll clean it up and then we'll sell it off. It'll sell. No problem. >> Yeah. Do you have any buyers in Baytown? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. I have a I have a deal out there. I think it's still sitting in the pipeline. I'm not I'm not too >> Well, I'm from Baytown. Yeah. >> Yeah, you should have [laughter] You should

have someone out there. >> I'll probably buy it. >> Yeah, I'll sell it to you. It's uh it's uh it's pretty dilapidated the house. Um it needs it needs work, but I got it under contract cheap. So, >> what's the address or what's the uh street name, you know? >> 714 Moral Street. >> Yeah. Merl. Uh yeah, I did one on Merl. >> Yeah, I'll show it to you. Um >> I think that one was >>

You might have seen it also. It was probably one of my teammates. We blasted it out. But I mean, I I'll show you what I have it under contract and everything. And you know, you know how transactions is. If I if I kind of found a borrower, I don't care how much I make, dude. As long as we get it moved, you know, on to the next one. >> I'll show it to you after. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I did one. I did one on I did pretty much every neighborhood over there. You you know, you're the Yeah, I'm from there. But >> you do a lot of volume. You just >> you know, you know, I mean, you you >> get to know get to know every street, you know. >> Yeah. You become very familiar with real estate. Um it's it's funny. I feel like the longer you are in

real estate, the more you start talking in zip codes, right? Like, oh, that's in Oh, what area is that in? Oh, zip code blah blah blah. I know exactly that. [laughter] >> Well, and you're not even a lot of times you don't like what's the square footage on that one? Do you remember? >> Uh, it's rank 1300, I think. Maybe. It's not It's not big. >> That one's probably worth what 200 210. It's a little bit

less than that. I think it's maybe around 180 something like that. >> I got you. >> Yeah. Is there a garage? >> I haven't been there, dude. So, I don't know. >> A lot of times I'll photos. Yeah. A lot of times I'll convert >> the garage >> stuff like I'll convert that over and I'll get that up to like two 210 215 something. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a pier and beam. I'm not sure. I don't

think it has a garage, but I I'll show it to you afterwards. Yeah. We'll talk about it. Great. >> But um let's get back to the lending. So, you a buddy came to you. He's like, "Hey, man. I need you to finance this deal. You finance it. Other people start hearing about it. At one point you're did you're like, "Okay, enough people need my help. Let's start King James King James lending." When did that happen? [laughter]

>> Uh so it is a joke is what it started. I >> Yeah. >> I was doing loans for buddies, right? People come to me and I had a bunch of money in cash. I mean many millions of dollars that I had in straight cash. This is in the very beginning. >> Yeah. And then I went to my private lenders. >> Where did they where did that money come from? Just flip it. >> Flip it. Yeah.

My own money. Yeah. Yeah. It was not private money or anything. It was just my own money. >> Yeah. You just stacked up the capital. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Over many years, right? >> You're telling me You're telling me you didn't go and buy a Ferrari as soon as you could, James? [laughter] >> No. No. I'm I'm always been pretty frugal and I I was playing the game of reinvestment. >> Mhm. You know,

man, I like I could see if I could just get to a certain amount of number of deals at a time, I could create this machine. This is a long time ago. I mean, we I've been doing this playing this a long time, but uh you know, when you could get to five, four, five, six, just do the math and you start making 30, 40, 50,000, you can put some crazy numbers together. >> Yeah, absolutely. >>

Well, about when you start doing 10, 15, 20, >> right? >> Like we've got like 26 flips going on right now. >> Geez, that's a lot. >> Yeah. I mean, you start putting these, you know, you're making 40, 50, 60, 80,000. I mean, it's big, big money. Big money >> chunks of cash coming in every month. >> Yes. >> Now, some are sitting, some are selling. You know, they're all different. You know, they're all um we

got a lot of new builds going on. Derrick will tell you that. >> Yeah. >> Uh but >> so what happened was I started running out of money. >> Yeah. >> Right. I mean, [laughter] >> so I like every real estate investor. >> Yeah. Right. Well, I'm looking out into the future. I'm saying, man, I'm this ain't slowing down. people keep coming. So, I started going to all my private lenders, >> right, >> that I had

ever worked with and I said, "Look, >> let me just tell you what I'm doing." Um, I'll put up half the money, you put up half the money. >> And that was I was going to my dad. I mean, everybody that I'd ever worked with or that I knew that I had ever loaned me money like that one, you know, the one I was talking about, hey, you put up >> 100, I'll put up a 100.

You put up 150, I'll put you put up 80. Me and Derek did a deal like that. You as we uh it was in Baytown. I walked to him. said, "Hey, I got a deal. I'll put up 80. You put up 80." And he did. He actually had money in a CD. >> And it was earning like, remember in like two 2000 it was earning like 1% or some [ __ ] like hardly nothing. Yeah. >>

And I said, "Dude, I'll pay you." And what I would do with these people is I'd pay them exactly what I did, what I got. I made no nothing over the top. So if I was getting 12 and two, >> I would give them 12 and two. I would not take an override. >> No. >> No. Zero. Yeah. So I would find the deal, vet the deal, be half the money in the deal, and give them

exactly what I got. >> Oh, so you would give them 12 and two, but you're also getting 12 and two. >> Yeah. Well, you get the same, right? I'd put up 80, they'd put up 80. >> So I was invested in the deal. I bet that, you know, underwrote the deal. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> We'd split it. >> Nice. >> Well, everybody said yes. You know, would you would you say yes to that? Yeah. It's not

like I'm I'm in the deal with you. I'm not going to invest if I think it's a bad deal, right? Yeah. So I'm equally And then we're splitting it 5050. I wasn't giving you 10% in one point. I was giving you exactly what I was getting. So, everybody said yes. >> Yeah. >> So, I >> I doubled my bandwidth >> right away. >> Right away. Right. And I kept and I did that for a while. And

uh I I had done quite a few loans. I mean, I had done maybe like 70 or 80 90 loans. It was it it happened really fast, >> right? >> And and when did this happen? Probably >> fast. I mean, >> but when did this Oh, this happened back in 2020. >> Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Fast. So this is already like five years into you flipping properties basically. >> Yeah. >> More or less. >> Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Got it. >> Scaled like crazy scale kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> And um I I um started you know splitting all those up from there my name. So >> it was like James well James Toller James to like if you get on Facebook or something you'd say you know somebody be like hey who's gonna and I wasn't even a company. It was just some guy >> James. >> You following James Lenning like James

Toll or whatever. James >> Rtol, >> they had tagged my name and they tagged my name. So it was James. James, this guy, he'll take good care of you or whatever. And I thought, man, I need to create a name. >> Yeah. >> What's a good What's a name? And my buddy goes, uh, he goes, you know, it would be a fun, this is a joke, right? And I didn't know anything would take off, right? So

this is a little naivveness on my part, right? I'm just a guy doing a couple things here and there. >> So he goes, you know, be funny is call yourself King James Lending. We do everything by the book. [laughter] >> Straight out the Bible. >> Yeah. It was a joke. A total joke. But I like I just thought it was so funny. >> Yeah. >> I You know what I mean? It just just a joke. This

is light-hearted kind of stuff. And I was like, "Okay, I'll call it King James lending." >> Yeah. It took off, >> man. It took That's just how it happened now. >> Yeah. I think you have a great brand now, you know, and I think you need to ride with it, you know, and just double down on it. If people like it, give the people what they like. >> Yeah. You know what I mean? >> Well, some

people like it, some some think it's arrogant or something or like, you know, you're this or that. >> There's going to be haters everywhere, man. You know, and it just I think to me, you know, all kind of if anyone's talking about you, good or bad, it's still good marketing. That's the way I see it. >> That's probably true. >> You know what I mean? >> I It's bothered me in the past. You know, it's probably

some flaw of mine. You know, wanting liking wanting to be liked or wanting to do people right, treat people right. If I if I've got beef with somebody, I like to try to work [snorts] that out the best I can, unless it's just unworkable, you know. But from my side, I'm always want to be listen, communicate, >> you know, and be >> the longer that I've been in business, James, the more that I've realized that you'll

never appease to everyone. That's >> true. >> And doesn't matter how hard you try to to be the the better man and to be a great person, there's still someone out there that's gonna have a negative opinion about you. And so, God bless him. >> That's why I say it's a flaw. Yeah, it's a flaw. It's probably a mindset shift that I I've I've tried. I used to be way worse at it and I but it

still come creeps up. That's something I need to >> work on. It's just, you know, it gets back to that idea I told you originally. It's just love, >> right? If if I just love, >> you can you can hate me or not like whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm still going to love you. >> You with me on that? That's that's kind of my my solution to that is is these >> show love to everyone. >>

Just show love, man. I mean, it's, you know, always be open, always be forgiving, always show grace. Yeah. >> You know, maybe he might not shown that to you, but you need to show that that's that's what I think I've been called to do, >> right? Yeah. Love that, man. Um, after King's King James Lending, the name came by and everything. Um, let's get to now how you scale to 15 people. What was your first hire?

Uh, how did you start building the team? When did you start focusing on culture? How did this all happen? >> Well, I My wife >> Yeah. >> was a big part of that. Yeah. She's >> What's What's your wife's experience? Her background? >> Uh, she's a C she's a CPA. >> She's a CPA. >> Yeah. And she she run she ran an apartment investing company. Mhm. >> Uh ran an oil and gas company and then ran

a disaster recovery company and one of the largest in the country and she ran the company. So she was she moved her way up uh just an amazing woman but businesswoman culture >> uh you ever you ever hear you know she's had job she had one job where she left because she was she did not feel appreciated and the whole staff left. >> Wow. So, she's the she's the type of person where she might not have

the title of CFO, >> but she's got the authority, right? >> You know what I mean by that? Like, who's got the real leadership in the company? Who do they follow? >> Right. >> Maggie's that person right there. People follow her. >> Yeah. >> She's always had that. She and she's an amazing leader, amazing woman. Uh, you know, you can't have me without her. That makes sense. I mean, it's impossible. It's impossible without her to uh

but she came on and she started to bring people on that help run the back office. Right. So King James lending I can yes I can help and and I'm a part of this of course but it's the process is the real because if I'm talking to you here yeah I'll do your deal and then I take three weeks to fund it. >> You know what I mean? So the the real core of the company of

any company, you know, is is in the process of the company itself. It's Maggie. >> The ability to actually do what you say you're going to do. >> Yes. I'm just words. >> Right. Right. >> That's all I am. >> Maggie's a doer. The one that gets it done. >> She's the one that she's trying, you know, her team and the process of it all. Yes. She's instrumental in in >> what this is. That's you couldn't

replace her. It's she's irreplaceable. >> When did you guys get married? while you were still before you started flipping or after >> Oh, yeah. We got married in 2013. >> Got it. >> I met her in 2011. >> Yeah. Got married quick. >> This is the one. >> Yeah, we did. Yeah. >> Yeah. Good for you. >> Yeah. It was >> she uh met her in Austin and then, you know, ended up coming back here and

she >> she came back with me. You know, that's really the best thing that happened in Austin. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, I'll give you a thought on that. It's worth it's worth thinking about. >> Yeah. Just for you and your listeners, [clears throat] when my dad came to me, he mind you, I'm out of high school. What >> he said, I got this really big contract in Austin and I need you to go. >>

Mhm. >> I had a girlfriend. >> I had all of my friends here. I knew nobody in Austin. >> Right. >> Nobody. But my dad needed me and I went. >> Right. >> There's something to be said about like obeying you or her dad. There's a phrase in the Bible that talks about like obeying your your you know your parents, honor your your mother and father, right? So when I left up there, I didn't know what

I knew nobody. I just left. I didn't even know our job. I just I left everything that I knew. >> Yeah. >> To to because my dad needed me. >> Right. >> Now what came from that? >> Such a lot of good thing came from it. Yeah. I mean the person that's basically running your organization >> and Yes. Yes. And the love of my life, right? So I mean she's she's not somebody you can just find.

You can't just find Maggie. It's not. >> Yeah. >> I had to go there >> to find >> and I had to obey, >> right? >> It's kind of interesting when that stuff happen. You know, you don't always see all the life paths and stuff that you do. There's an element of of obeying and >> and uh not knowing not trying to figure everything out, right? It's not >> you'd say, "Hey, I've got a girlfriend here

and this and that." And you know, it doesn't make sense. I think there's an element of that that's real interesting in life. >> Yeah. >> That you know, you just you go and you don't know everything, but you just do it anyway. And right, >> but that's how you know met her and >> you know came back here and I didn't get into real estate right away. It took a little while but >> she's she's certainly

she was instrumental in >> in your growth >> in the in the growth. Yeah. And obviously we you know I found people and but I mean Rob is enormous asset to to the organization and he's a great person. Derek is irreplaceable. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. I mean, Eric has helped me grow tenfold just being around him every day. He's >> he's a hustler. >> Well, he, you know, he worked. So, most people didn't realize this, but

he worked for for, you know, what 17 18 years. He's he's built his portfolio working a full-time job. >> Really? >> Yes. People don't realize that he didn't quit his job until LA like mid last year. He's had a full-time job. No kidding. >> Yes. Working nine, you know, 9 to three or whatever. 8 to three. >> Where does he work at? >> We was an operator. He trained operators, but >> he'd been working the old.

So he when he left, >> you know, he came on, >> we me and him have been working together for many years, but he but full-time was a different thing. So being around him every day, too, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Has really kind of catapulted your business more >> very much. Well, both of ours. I mean, we're >> Yeah. Oh, you guys are crushing it for sure. >> Well, so you guys have >>

KDK, how we do that is KDK, we're 50/50 on that. So everything that I get goes into that. Everything he gets goes into that. And that's apartments, that's wholesales, land. We own a bunch of land everywhere. Probably 40 lots or so. Cash that we bought all over the place. We've been, you know, we do a lot of new builds. I don't if you knew that. No. >> Yeah. We we we have a lot of new builds.

No kidding. >> I bought a uh Girl Scout Girl Scouts of America. We brought a whole block from them and then replatted it. Yeah. Yeah, we do stuff you mean on stuff like that where you'll buy big plots of land and replplat it out to >> seven or eight stuff like that. But so KJL was owned by Maggie and I and then the KDK side's owned by Derek and I. That's >> so I would say that

um you know a lot of a lot of your success comes from having great partners then. >> Well, it's all of it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It ain't me. Yeah. >> When people think, oh man, you've done this or that. No, I >> I don't think anybody does to be honest with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I think you're being egotistical >> saying you did it by yourself. >> Yeah. >> I don't And it's just

>> I've never met a self-made man to this day. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm not without them. I'm telling you, I'm nothing. And they've catapulted everything, too. So, that's something I've If you find the right people I I heard a I had a mentor tell me that the other day. He buys and sells businesses. And he said, you know, when I when I buy uh when I put businesses together, I usually own 30 30 to say

40% of them >> of the business and I get and I find people who help me run these businesses, but I give them the majority of the ownership. >> So, you're only as good as the people and it kind of fit along with my alignment, you know, the way I think because you only can grow as much as the people inside your organization. So, if you find really high quality people, give them ownership. Right. >> It's

irreplaceable and they will take you to levels you could never go yourself. >> Absolutely. >> And Rob has conversations on a daily basis that I he helps me avoid those. I couldn't I can't be everything to everybody. >> Right. >> It's just been instrumental in >> and growing >> growing growth. Yeah. >> When um so 2024 sorry 2020 2021 uh your lending company uh starts taking off. What was your first hire? I mean, obviously Maggie was

with you, right? But who was the first person that you guys started contracting? >> Josh, that'd be my project manager. >> Yeah. >> Project manager for the lending company. >> Yeah. Well, yes. And for my my flip, so I still flipped. >> Yeah. >> You know, I've been doing that since I started. That's a that's a cash >> uh machine. So, it just spits out. So, >> uh I've always done that, you know, wholesaliled off, but

So, Josh very important part obviously construction, right? He runs my construction for me and runs the draw process on the loans. So he's protecting my loans. So when you know you got a $60,000 scope, you know, and you want 60k, he's going to say, "Hey, how are you ready for that?" >> Right. >> So just the inspector side of the Yeah. >> very important hire. >> Yeah. >> I mean, think about how important construction is to

your business. >> Extremely. [laughter] Yeah. It's everything, right? >> And then he's protecting the loans from the inspection side. >> Oh, I see. >> You follow me on that? Yeah. Like when you have a draw, >> right? He's the one that goes out. the one that goes out there. So very very very important both sides right there. >> Yeah. So he's able to see the construction. He knows construction. So he goes and see the sees the

properties and make sure that what the borrower told you has been done has actually been done. >> Exactly. And so his background is new builds. >> Okay. So that he's built by 300 new homes. >> Okay. So he's got a lot of experience. >> Very a lot. And that's his specialty is new build. That's why we do so much new builds is that's actually his specialty. He's got really good trades. And uh that's something we're that's

why I continue to buy lots. >> Yeah. >> The thing with lots is, you know, as you a good deal comes up and then gone. It's kind of like at houses, right? But lots >> uh as these things come up, I'll buy them and I'll just hold them and whenever I'm ready for them, I don't need to go find them. And I might have bought them for 20 cents on the dollar. >> Pretty cheap. >> Yeah.

Follow me. That's kind of I'm always looking for lots lots. Lots lots. Yeah. Or if you buy something >> in totality, say you buy I give you example. I had a I had a lot come up. It's got an interesting thought. I had one come up and you needed uh to replplat you needed 6,000 square foot. You needed 50 50 foot frontage and 6,000. Well, this lot was 11,800. >> Okay. >> It had to have 12,000.

I mean, because you had to have a 6,000 per plat, right? So, it was one plat but 11,800. >> So, you're missing 200. >> I'm missing 200 square foot. I'm like, damn it. You know, so I look up, >> go ask the neighbor. >> What's the neighbor? happened to be on har for sale >> the neighbor. >> Yes, >> it was just land. It was it wasn't a it was just it was actually perfect because I

think it was they and they had uh >> they had just enough that if I replanted it just right I could get five. >> M very good. >> Yeah. So that's what ended up happening. And you bought it? >> Yeah. I bought Yeah. So I bought >> that one for 11,800. I bought the one next door and it was like 20,000 or something like it was just enough to make five and then I replatted it. >>

Yeah. >> And then so then I went from I think I bought that one for like 35 and then that one for like 90. But but together >> five lots now you're in them for 20, >> right? >> You follow me on that? >> You just got to be creative, huh? >> Got to be creative, right? And they're worth they're worth maybe 60 each. >> 60 each. Yeah. >> 60 70,000 each each lot. >> So you're

in it for 20 each. Now you're worth 60. You got 40 in equity on each one. You >> follow me on that? So, they're 30 cents on the dollar. >> Yeah, it's not bad. >> Yeah, >> it's not bad at all. >> So, I like doing that. I mean, it's just And if you know, if you think about if you got money in the bank, >> yeah, you can do those deals. >> Well, you got But

also, you got money sitting in the bank, what's it earning on earning? >> Nothing. >> So, by doing a little this or that, you're you're taking >> uh you an asset there that might be worth now 200,000 more. And that you're using a hundred to make 200. That's just you can't where >> Yeah. >> I got to look at that, right? is what's the return on my capital if it's sitting here or if it's if I

give you >> 10 grand on a on a package on a marketing package and you help me create 200 grand off that I'm going to do that all day long I'll probably bump it up to >> right yeah >> why wouldn't I >> why wouldn't you >> because 15k in my account's not doing a damn thing >> with me on that that's that's the way an investor in my mind that's the way I've always looked at

it I have I have 500 grand I have a million I have two million I have 5 million sitting here how do I use that to keep it growing that's my job as an investor to grow money, >> right? And you're going to do that like in different areas now. Now that you have different organizations, your lending company, your flipping, you could wholesale, you have different organizations now and you have options to place the capital. >>

Bango >> at the at the place where it's going to grow the best and with the least amount of risk. >> That's right. What would you say is the right now out of all the options that you have, what is the safest kind of bet that you see with all of the turmoil that's happening right now in 2025, 2026, you know, there's still going to be some turmoil. Where do you feel like is the safest place

to put your money in? >> About any asset or in real estate or >> Let's talk first in real estate and then we'll talk about any asset because maybe you'll say gold or something. >> Oh, no. I I don't I'm not a gold guy. I don't I think in real estate I actually think what you're doing is one of the safer bets >> as in you said if is if you have the organization right I've got

the people >> right >> so if I've got the people to go on the sales appointments to lock down the deals you're getting >> where could I put 10k up and make >> a hundred you just told me was she spent $1750 or $2,000 and made an $80,000 got a deal off Right. >> Yeah. >> Right. Well, to year year to today, I think she started with me about maybe around July or so. So, she's been

with me less than 6 months. She's added more campaigns. She's gave me total of like 28,000 so far year to date. I mean, not a lot. Um, but we have delivered an ROI for her. She did, I think, 170,000 in a couple of deals. >> So, think about that for a second. >> 28K. Where could I put 28K to earn five times my money? >> It's very hard. >> You can't. >> You can't. [laughter] >> If

I If I loaned you money, I'm going to get 12% or 10%. So, I'm going to earn $2,000. >> Yeah. >> And I might turn that over twice a year. So, I'm going to earn >> six or $7,000 on that 28. Follow me on that. So, when you when you're your model actually when you say, "How can I best invest my money in real estate?" It's with someone like you. >> Yeah. The only issue is that

a lot of people don't have all of the processes and all of the follow-up systems and the closers to close the leads. >> That's a good point. >> Yeah. So, I mean, >> but that's on them. >> That's on them. Yeah. I I always tell any person that ever comes to me, I'm like, "Listen, uh, this this business is simple, but it's not easy." Okay. It takes a lot of work. You have to work the leads.

You have to close them. And I always say someone like my client in California, she's not typical at all. She is a beast. You know what I mean? You have to be aggressive. You have to follow up relentlessly with the with the leads. But if you do all of these things, you're going to make a crap ton of money. >> Well, I mean, that's your that's your job as an investor is to follow up and to

grow your communication skills, grow your rapport, grow your bonding. Like, if you can't do those things, you don't even deserve. You're not like, what are you doing? >> Right. Right. Another one, another really good one, James. Uh I was talking to Cody. He owns a roofing company. He's given me so far about 45K this year and uh he's generated 600,000 in revenue from that. >> Just where could you do that? I'm I'm serious. I mean, no,

>> you can't, you know, >> that's that's a cost of marketing, right? It's beautiful. >> It's uh you know, five that's a 5x your money. That's that one's way more than that. >> 12x on that. >> To get >> to earn 12 times like if I put the money in the stock market, what am I going to earn? 6% or 8% or 10% like you can't earn 12x. >> Yeah. And the whole market right now is

being held by Nvidia stocks, >> right? [laughter] I mean, exactly. >> This entire S&P 500, I think Nvidia stock makes up 3% of the S&P 500. >> Yeah. >> It is nuts. >> Well, but really 10 stocks, right? >> That's making up >> the majority of it. Yeah. It's never been that concentrated ever. And they're and they're tech stocks, so >> that's a problem. Yeah. >> I I don't I don't invest in anything other than real

estate. I know people have Bitcoin and all that stuff, but I >> I have some in stocks, but I mean there like uh Google and stuff like that that I bought, you know, like real strategically. Remember when uh >> the there was a the banking crisis a couple years ago >> and all like all the banks were going to go out. I think there was some California banks that were went under. I bought a number of

banking stock, bunch of them, but it was specific. >> Yeah. >> Uh and it was >> banks that maybe you knew were not going to >> like I bought Charles Schwab. was one of them like big banks, but that one got crushed. >> Yeah. >> And it's coming back, you know, just fine. I bought Google whenever AI was going to take out Google and that was maybe >> two or three years ago. It got down to

like $90 a share or something like that. >> Good price. Yeah. Now it's at like 280 or 2 something 270. Good return. >> Yeah, it was a good one. But >> but it took time. >> That's how I do that is I'm more like patient and I'm waiting for certain things to happen and then I'll buy. That's how I look at it, right? >> It's like real estate, right? when you you're buying a deal. You're looking

for a deal. >> Mhm. >> Most of the time in the stock market, you're not you're buying at full value, >> right? Absolutely. >> You got to find a time when you can get it at a discount and then let time be the catalyst to to unlock that value. >> Yeah. Bring up your equity >> because you got think in real estate, your construction is unlocking that value, >> right? >> Right. Something's worth you buy it

for 100, it's worth 200. How do I unlock that 100K? >> Construction. >> The construction, >> right? You got to have the right project manager in place. You got to have the right contractors. >> And stocks you can't really there's no real catalyst. No, >> you follow me. You know, usually it's not in control of that. >> You're not in control of nothing. >> No. No. You don't have the opportunity to go in and increase the

value by maybe, hey, let's convert this kitchen. Let's do this to let's add another bathroom. Let's add square footage because we're going to enclose this garage. You can't do that with socks. >> Yes. That's why I like real estate. That's why most of my money is in real estate. >> Yeah. Um, where do you see where do you see the let me ask you a question now like shifting a little bit more gears now towards the

market as in general. Um, I feel like you probably have a very good sense of the market where it's at. You probably talk a lot to borrowers. You've probably seen some people with property sit on the market this year. Yeah, >> that's that's how something that I've seen a lot this year. >> So, what are you seeing in the market in 2025? What have you seen this year? [clears throat] You need capital to withstand holding times.

Uh it's not always obvious. We did a deal as a foreclosure that we bought in uh Galveastston. There was 75 or so listings in this in a small pocket. >> Okay. >> 75 listings. >> 75 listings. Active >> active listings. So, think about trying to sell your home. Yeah. Right. Inventory. >> So, we bought we bought this home for 180 and we put >> I don't know, maybe 40 50 in it. We were in it for

220. It it it >> appraisal on it was like 420 and we listed it for 380. >> Okay. Okay. >> And we had one of the cheaper homes over there and it was one of the nicest homes over there. Okay. >> And we sold it within about 20 days. >> Still took 20 days. >> It still I mean it still took a little while. Yeah. But >> that was 40K under and we kicked everybody's ass. Nobody

had a product like ours. It was on the water, >> right? >> Beautiful. >> Think about that though. I had to list it 40k under and the best product, >> right? Best rehab. So that's what you're really having to do is you list under value typically and you have the best product possible, >> right? >> The very best product possible. >> Yeah, >> that's the answer. >> And if you try to do an inferior product and

price it like you would have in 21, it will not sell. So your expectations are off. You got to overdo the rehab and underdo the ARV and they'll sell. That's been my experience. We haven't we haven't had too many issues. Yeah, some here or there, but Do [snorts] your borrowers ever come to you and ask you what price they should list the properties for? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that that they should list it. Well,

I mean, you know, you have an ARV, you know, you have an appraisal done, so they have an idea. [snorts] >> I tell them usually >> an appraisal is based on the past, you know, right? So, that doesn't mean that's what you'll get in the future, especially right now. >> Yeah. We've had some where these DSCR lenders uh put the the appraisal they had appraised for like 290, but it wouldn't sell for 240 on the open

market. >> 50K. >> Yeah. >> 50K off. >> Yeah. Well, it's just they wouldn't sell. I mean, it's And the 290 was accurate. >> Yeah. >> They didn't do anything wrong. It's just the market. >> It's weird. >> It's weird. It ain't selling for what it should sell for. >> Yeah. It's so funky, dude. >> The area plays a role. >> Yeah. your quality place. Like right now, I've never seen so many things play a role

in it all. There's just there's fewer buyers. They can be more picky. >> So, you got to be better, >> right? >> Yeah. >> The answer is to be better. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> If you want to know the truth, you got to be better. You got to you got to be less greedy. >> You got to take what they give you, >> right? when you when you know when they when you list it 30k under

appraisal or 20k under appraisal and then they offer you 10 below that or 15 below that >> you probably are going to be like screw this guy on a normal normally >> I'm already giving you a deal >> can't do that right now >> I don't think so >> you got >> so some of that comes down to greed I know is would you call that greed or would you call that reality >> just confirming reality

like this is what the state we're in >> uh there's a lot of money to be made but you but only for the real operators who understand that or you're going to get crushed. So, you're either going to make a lot to say, "How the hell are y'all buying so many? Y'all y'all are crazy, >> right?" >> You say, "How could y'all do so many deals and have all this going on?" >> Cuz you got the

right processes in place. >> The It's the processes in place and the philosophy, >> right? >> Does that philosophy make sense? >> Absolutely. >> I mean, top tier like I kick your ass on your rehab, I will kick your ass >> and then I'm going to underpric you >> and then I'm going to unpric you. >> Yeah. >> They're going to pick mine. of course, >> if there's one to be picked. So sometime, you know, I

mean, so some of these we've we've listed and they haven't sold and I was under and we just rented them out. So the other key to that is try to stay in prices that they can rent out. >> Okay. >> You know, I mean, if they don't sell, >> so what is that like under 300K? >> Yeah. I mean, you know, ideally two 250, 240, 230 and under ideally, you know, >> but uh that would be

the other thought there is if it doesn't sell and say 2 months, a month, two months, 3 months, whatever, you just go ahead and rent it out. >> And [snorts] we've done that, too. >> Yeah. >> What percentage would you say that you've had to keep as rentals versus percentage that you successfully flipped? >> That's a good question. Uh, I don't know. I've sold most of them. Most of them haven't. >> So, it's a small percentage.

>> It is small. >> For the most part, you're doing a good job with getting it priced right and then selling it right on the market. >> Well, think about that. You have 75 listings and you're the only one that moves. That's insane. Well, I mean, it was luck, too. So, don't get me wrong. I'm not I'm not saying that, >> you know, it's luck. There's a luck in ele element to that. >> Yeah. But, I

mean, there's >> bit of a strategic luck. There's ways to increase your luck at something, James. You know, if you if you uh if you do a good job, you do a great rehab, and then you underpric it. I mean, >> the landscaping, >> it's really easy to get lucky then. [laughter] >> Yeah. Right. Well, and the landscaping, I spent more than maybe you would normally spend on landscape. I want you to pull up. I want

you to fall in love with that house from the beginning. Right. So, it's all little things >> that you do >> that you have to do. And I and I'm talking on a process, right? But I don't get too involved in uh >> the dayto-day >> the day-to-day and all that stuff, but there's certain things in that process that you can put in to help you or give you a better shot, >> right? >> And uh

then you know that gets back to the idea of always been a big believer in this. You want to be looking for your next deal. >> Yeah, I agree. >> This is where you come in. So you very important to that process, right? And the truth is is if you know if I can be a good salesman >> Yeah. That's really where my time should be spent, right? >> Follow me on that. Letting you bring me

leads and then letting me do what I do best. And that is what I'm at best at this is dealing direct with sellers, dealing with borrowers, right? >> And >> with borrow, you talked about I just gave you this thought. You know, you had said somebody was wanting to do a bunch of DSCR loans, right? How do you do more DS? I do a lot of DSCR loans. >> Yeah. >> Well, people have to see you

as an expert, right? When they're looking at me and I have over, you know, 150 rentals. So when you say I want to do DSRs, well you'd want to do it with the person doing them, >> right? That knows [laughter] knows how to do >> I'm not telling you how to do it. I'm doing it and then I'm saying hey >> this is what works. >> So it's there's an element of that, right? It's I with

Rob, you know, Rob had been at >> had had been in real estate, you know, eight years and he had never flipped a house. >> Really? >> Yes. >> Did he flip a house? >> 30 days within starting with us, he bought a home. Yes. Nice. >> Yes. >> Good for him. >> 30 days. >> Good for him. That was important to me is is if when you're going to tell people this can change your life,

>> this can do this or that, >> you got to be able to do it. >> I think so. Is that is that a fair thought? Right. Yeah. You you got you know it goes for it hits harder and it hits more genuine. >> Right. Right. You can say it with more authenticity and clarity if you have the experience. >> I think so. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I have a question for you, James. Where do you

see the market going in 2026? >> I don't know. I don't really think about that. No, >> I don't think it's predictable. >> Yeah. >> Uh, >> then a better question would be this, James. >> How are you preparing to win in 2026? >> [clears throat] >> Well, you're going to win by having better relationships, stronger teams, >> because the output that I can do with a team in an organization, you >> individually it's impossible, >>

right? >> It's imposs when you're competing against me or Derek, you're not competing against me or Derek, right? >> You're competing against a team people of 20. >> You know what I mean? Yeah. that's it's not quite what you're thinking it is or or I could beat that guy. That guy ain't nobody. It's you're you're missing >> the culture side. You're missing what's >> painstakingly put together. >> Yeah. >> So, um the idea there would be,

you know, is better better relationships, stronger relationships, you know, um buying better, eating better, improving myself. Like I'm everyday I'm trying to grow. I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to grow my my ability to communicate, my ability to to sell, my ability to connect. >> Yeah. >> Right. So that's to me that's the answer. It's >> it's more >> to be better, >> stronger, uh to grow in love. I think I think that's a weird

thought to think, but I I would tell you >> if you can love more people, I think >> love on more people >> genuinely. I that might be a weird way to think about it like in business, but if you can sense somebody truly cares about you, wants the best for you, that's a formula for success, >> right? >> That very few people are putting out. >> Yeah. >> Are you with me on that thought? Absolutely.

Yeah. And so I'm I'm working on myself to be better at that. >> Yeah. >> You say 26, I want to be better in that way. I want to have better relationships. I want to set better expectations. Yeah, that plays a role, right? I want to set better boundaries. I've been working on that too, right? >> Is >> let me set these boundaries. Let me set these expectations so that we have a wonderful relationship. You can't

be successful in real estate without wonderful relationships. Yeah. And some people will not like you. Some people will like you. Yeah. >> But it is what it, like you said earlier, it is what it is. But I just want to if you got a problem, let's talk about it. >> Mhm. >> And if and if you don't, you know, then just and it gets the other side. Let's ride. Pick the people that you want to dominate

with and let's go. >> Yeah. >> And you can fit in or not. >> That's it. Get on the bus or get off of it. >> That's the way I look. I look at it more micro than macro. Follow me on that. So, I'll continue to do fantastic rehabs. list them fair and, you know, build out our relationship stronger with our contractors, stronger with our wholesale contacts, stronger with realtors. >> That's that's the answer. It's it's

stronger. >> Is there any specific kind of vision that you have maybe for your King King James Lending Company and your company with Derek? Is there any particular I guess like area that you'd like to see it in? vision in what way? >> You know, um, let's, you know, there's people that, let's say they are, they own a lending company. They're like, you know, I wish my company, I could see it nationwide. I, you know, I

want to have a nationwide lending company. Is there that that's, you know, that's one kind of vision. Another vision would be, you know, being the number one in Houston every year. >> Yeah. I never think about that. I don't even care. >> No. >> No. What do you What do you think about your goal? >> Better service. >> Yeah. >> For your lenders. >> For my borrowers. Better service. Better customer. Like I said, when I walked

in here, I said, "Hey, what can I do better for you?" That's what I'm interested in. So, >> the numbers will be the numbers. I don't give a [ __ ] where I could be 10th or 20th. I honestly don't care. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know I was that. They told me that. >> Yeah. >> I don't care. I just want to deliver better service. That's that's honestly all I'm trying to do because I know

that'll lead to all the other things I'm trying to get >> right. >> Um, >> you know, from a vision perspective, I'd like to spend more time with family and stuff. You know, it'd be >> I was talking to a buddy of mine before I walked in here on the drive here and he was talking about would be neat next year would be a I've never been to Disney World. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, I was

he was saying, you know, >> Oh, you're in for a treat, man. >> Well, yeah. So, my wife hasn't either. Yeah. Maggie's never been. I have an 11-year-old and a nine-year-old. We were talking about maybe taking them out of school like a surprise like put all their clothes together or something. Take them out of school and say, "Hey, you know, >> we're going to go ahead and go to Disney Disney World." >> Yeah. >> And surprise

you, right? They're thinking they're in school and stuff and like >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like I think that would be a really cool surprise. But, you know, doing more family. If you ask me a vision, I know you talk about probably business, but >> I would like to spend more time and create more memories with my family, >> right? That's what matters to me. It's actually the vision, you know, the business stuff.

I'm already kind of at a spot where >> it's good, >> okay? You know what I mean? You could have X or 10X or 50x or what, but what I have is already plenty, >> right? >> So, I I would rather create memories with people that I love and I care about. That's kind of where I would rather that's the vision that I see that I need to >> because you know, when you're when you're on

your deathbed, you're not going to think about, hey, I could have made 100K. You know what I mean? [laughter] I wish I would have done five more deals. Made another million. >> You're like, you remember that memory when I took you out of school and you thought we were going to go to school all week and I took you out. >> That's what's going to remember, >> right? And you took me there, Dad, and you we

had the time of our life and we went during the week when most people couldn't go. >> Yeah. >> And there was no lines there and the lines weren't crazy. And >> do you remember that day? That's what they're going to say. That's so that's something that in my head like I want to >> uh that's my vision. Good >> is you know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, but that

to me is is >> what I would like to uh but the business stuff, do you take care of the customer, >> take care of your relationships, take care of Derek and and Rob and you know, make sure they're, >> you know, everybody's good. Yeah. You know, and and I'm delivering value to them. They're del, you know, it's in harmony. Everything's flowing. >> Yeah. >> You can't find a Derek, you know, you can't find it's impossible.

So >> you got but you've got to be the type of partner that's worthy of someone like that too. >> So I think about that a lot is >> and you have to continually invest in yourself in multiple ways. >> Bingo. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Because as if you find great people, they're going to develop themselves automatically and they're going to keep getting better. >> That's powerful right there. >> And if you're not getting better

along with them, guess what? You're going to get left behind. >> That that's see that's a focus of mine, right? And you say it's not a number. Yeah. Yeah, >> but that's you're kind of on with my thought there. >> Yeah, I understand. >> And and everything else will take care of itself, >> right? >> I couldn't even predict >> if I say I wanted to be this, right? I couldn't even, >> you know, I'd be

like, I want to be 30th or something. You know what I mean? [laughter] You know what I mean? Like I I I don't know that I would even set my goals that high. >> Yeah. >> But it happens automatically. So it's like focus on focus on the thing that'll produce the result, not on trying to get the result. Right. It's a byproduct of this. >> Yeah. >> So the people that manipulate or do this to get

here, but that's not >> that's not the right way. >> That's not the way. That's that's the way I look at things. >> Yeah. So I kind of like if you you know like the people like brand new, you know, you're brand new and you're like, "Oh, I want to get rich, right?" Well, you can't focus on getting rich. You got to focus on doing the work. >> Yes. >> It's in the growth. It's in the

capital. It's in the relationships, >> right? >> It's in a service. >> Yep. You know, it's in the it's being a steward, you know, and >> being a great steward. Yeah. >> I love it. >> Well, James, um I really appreciate you coming out here and uh offering all this value and sharing your story with uh with the viewers. Um how can people connect with you if they want to get a hold of you, if they'd

like to? Uh you're buying deals. I mean, you you're doing what 26 at a time right now. So, if someone has a deal and they want to sell it to you right away, they know you can close in two hours. Uh, from your experience, >> the title commitments. Yeah. It's got to [laughter] be it's got to be ready. But, yes. >> Yeah. If if someone wants to sell you a deal and they want to present it

to you, how can they get a hold of you? >> Best way just text me, call me. Yeah. It's 8322568596. Just reach out to me. Call me. Text me, you know. I'll I'll answer right away. Absolutely. I mean, that's >> Yeah, money's calling. You got to answer. >> I mean, it's it's it's >> especially Especially if it's about you helping someone out and in doing that. I think time is of the essence. So, I think you

show how you're able to stand on your business by being able to just share your phone number here and say, "Hey, you know what? Call me, text me." And you know, sometimes you don't have the time, you know, and there's a lot of people that maybe say, "Oh, put it on the website or email or blah blah blah." Well, by the time you do all that, that deal's already gone. >> Yeah, >> that deal's already gone.

>> Well, that's I've done, you know, I've done quite a few deals now. It's all about speed. It's all about confidence. It's all about knowing your numbers and being ready to pull the trigger. Yeah, that's >> you. You do six, seven, 800 of these things, you know, you just, >> you know, >> yeah, you kind of figure it out over time and you have the team. >> Yeah. What What about for your lending company? If someone

has a loan to that they need money on, how can they Same thing, just reach out to you? >> I'd say call me. Yeah. Uh, so our website's kingjameslending.com. So you can you can go on there and uh but you know, call me. I like to talk to you if you got a deal. I like to talk about it. I'd like to tell you maybe you shouldn't be doing that deal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I enjoy

that. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Like I told that woman, you know, when I she came to me, I said, "You shouldn't be buying this house." >> Yeah. >> You know, you all you me on that. It's not >> You're better off telling somebody not to do something and saving their butts. Yeah. >> Because the long-term relationship will benefit from that. >> Absolutely. >> You with me on that? Yeah. >> So, I'd say same thing. >> I

agree. And I' I'd love to look at it, vet it, and um, you know, just help any way I can. >> Yep. Awesome. Thanks again uh for coming on to the podcast, man. This is a great I had a great time getting to know you, and um I think this is going to help out a lot of people listening and watching to this. >> I appreciate you. Thank you. I enjoyed it a lot. It was fun.

I enjoy >> just trying to help any way I can. Thank you. I appreciate you thinking of me. >> Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you again, man. Appreciate it.