From War-Torn Ukraine to the American Dream: Kateryna Titenko’s Real Estate Journey

Where do you where do you see the market going in 2026? >> It doesn't sound excited. >> Why not? >> Well, um, in another one, I bought a townhouse in Vaspberry, which I bought for 83 grand. I put 20 on it and I sold it for 175. >> Nice. >> I know. It was awesome. >> Yeah. Sounds like it. >> Back then it was awesome. >> Yeah. >> Your first property? Uh yeah. Uh I bought one

house. Uh my first house was it was kind of funny. >> I know you said that you you're really sad during the whole war in Ukraine. Do you have family over there still? >> Yeah, my mom's still there. Uh but I mean you I think you don't realize it, but it's uh how it happened, right? When war happened. >> How much do you pay for bookkeeping a month? >> $80. >> 80 bucks. >> What? That's what

I thought because I was used to pay for a book bookkeeping app like 30 something. So I thought like well I pay 80 and they do everything for me. >> So what is your plan to profit on the other end Katarina? >> Well I think in um my strate podcast where every solution is a call away. I'm your host Jiannis. I'm the CEO of Vancom. I help companies scale with marketing, sales, and AI. Today's guest is

Katarina Denko. She has done over 150 transactions, fix and flips, wholesales, uh different exit strategies. Uh she owns 12 doors, 11 properties to be precise, and she's got over a million dollar net worth. Um but on top of all that, Katarina was born in Ukraine. So, how did you how did you manage to do all that from Ukraine, Kevin? >> Fair luck. >> Fear luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And perseverance. >> Yeah, that's it. >> Yes.

Uh well, I I think since a kid, I kind of a little bit was on my own, you know, just scholar oriented, but uh also >> um I like math, so if something makes sense, I'll do it. That's why I like real estate. But um overall, I moved here when I was 23. Uh I got married and was home wife for 5 years. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Were you uh like how did you meet the person

over here? >> I met online. >> Online? >> Yeah. Nowadays, >> were you a mail order bride, Katarina? >> Well, again, that's question. It's going to uh it's going to go to my grave. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. So, you were born in Ukraine. You were um born and raised over there. Went to school and everything. Did you go to college over there? >> Yeah, I finished uh fashion design. >> Fashion design?

Yeah. >> No kidding. >> I always wanted to be like Victoria Bad him. >> Really? That's hilarious. I've known you for a long time and I never knew that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you wanted to be um you did fashion design. Um you graduated >> and then you're like, I'm done with Ukraine. >> No, it wasn't exactly like that. So it just felt like a lot of people there I mean like at 23 or 20

years old a lot of people already married have kids so it feels like in the end of the you know like life and I remember thought like that's it that's it to myself a lot of people even if you look at the longevity people their longevity like 65 years old average yeah so people die a year earlier >> um >> why do you think that is >> I Well, a lot of factor I think stress uh

low education and um medication is probably not as good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> So, um you were like you were 23 and you're like, "Yeah, I don't want to live here. I don't want to live in Ukraine anymore." >> No, it wasn't like that. >> Look, I just pow the follow the flow was talking to this guy for three years. We met multiple times >> and then I thought to myself, well, is it

supposed to we're supposed to get together? We should to up, >> you know, what's the point to three years talking? So, I told him like, hey, you need to marry me. >> Classic classic uh Ukrainian thing. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So, you you moved to the US. Um you're 23 years old. >> Um when did you get into roast? When did you get the bug? >> It's a quite interesting story. So I never

I thought like you know I remember I thought to myself like I'm bored you know to like so I went to work a little bit in um retail store. Mhm. >> Um then I was really like working out and all of my employee sorry not my employee co-workers >> was telling to me they was telling to me oh you like working out so much I should have became a personal trainer so I became personal trainer and

then when um co happened I remember actually I was thinking before that what I going to do in my life I was sit down and thinking and I like well I don't going to go to university or college it's quite expensive of loan time. I thought about like fast education. Everyone telling me, "Oh, no. Real estate's only for those like uh like females who doing like one to two transaction a year. Pretty like it it's going

to be sucks for you. You're not going to be successful. Everyone like telling me those stuff." >> Uh and this happened by accident when the co happened. I met at the gym a guy. He was walking to the front desk. I was on a on a commission based >> there and I'm like well I need to sell him a training. >> So I like hey how you like a G and I start talking to him and

he like well I'm investor. >> Yeah >> and um I if you want I going to teach you how to invest in real estate without the money. I'm like that sounds like >> scam scam. >> Yeah this guy's a scammer. >> But he like well come over uh there is an office down the road and um you know you can see it yourself. It's like two two weeks boot camp. So I went there. Um I went

there. I met two other guys and they asked me, "Do you know this wholesaling real estate?" I said, "No." They're like, "Oh, go watch YouTube and come back tomorrow." >> So I went home, I watch YouTube, I come back tomorrow. I didn't know it was interview and I pass it. I like interesting. >> And then we they teach us two weeks about, you know, wholesale real estate, how found leads, how, you know, analyze a deal. I

thought that's crazy because like who will sell your house 50 cents on a dollar and then they give me a list like big list to call on people and I think on the 50th call like approximately about that I I call and one lady told me she have a house in Sunnyside for $80,000. I like wow that's interesting. So I you know we we actually contracted with sold it and I get paid. So I like wow

it's real. Otherw I feel like if I would be not gonna get the deal so fast, I would probably not going to believe in it or some. I don't know. >> You wouldn't be here right now. >> Yeah, maybe. >> Wow, that's that's pretty interesting. >> Mhm. >> Was that Joe Davis? >> Yeah. >> No way. Wait, so did you meet some Did you meet Joe Davis at the gym or did you meet someone else? >>

No. Someone work with him? >> I met another guy. He was like kind of acquisition agent there and he was a good friend of Joe Davis. He tried to recruit people. Just talk about that. >> And uh when I went there, I saw Joe Davis. >> I love that. Yeah. Joe Davis is a great friend of mine and uh a client of Bangome. So >> um love that dude. He owns a hard money company now, but

at the time he did a lot of wholesaling here in Houston. >> Mhm. >> So you kind of just stumbled upon wholesaling from the beginning. Just like randomly walked into the office and then started got lucky right away. >> Yeah. >> That's incredible. Uh, >> you know, most people their journey does not happen like that at all. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny because I can, you know, like you just do it because they're

like, you know, they told you to do it and you respect a person. So, like, okay, let me do what he said. But >> they kind of funny. They was keep telling to me I was saying, do you have any of properties? Like they they copy me how I was talking. It was so funny. >> Yeah. >> Like, well, I guess that's why I was stood up, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you're different. And so people

were, you know, attracted to that and they're like, "Oh, this is going to be fun." Right. >> Yeah. >> And I bet did you get a lot of reactions when you initially started calling too about your accent? >> Not really. I I remember those old was talent. It's about relationship business. >> So I try to all the time talk maybe only 20% about the house or deal and 80% about the day. Yeah, I ask them. For

instance, usually when I call they, you know, I say, "How you doing?" And they're like, "Oh, I'm doing good. How you doing?" I'm like, "Well, I need another cup of coffee." >> I tried to bring something funny, you know. >> Uh or I say, "Well, I don't know. Feeling like going to fall asleep soon and, you know, just start like, you know, kind of start saying something and they're like, "What's why is this girl talking to

me?" >> Uh, so I tried to build like, you know, relationship besides someone on talking about the deal. >> Yeah. I love that. When did you um when did you join Joy Davis team? >> What year was that? >> I think it was 2019 and it was the end of the August. >> 2018. >> 19. >> 2019. Got it. >> Yeah. >> And so you started working with him. You're wholesaling. How long were you there? >>

For two years. >> Two years. Wholesaliled a bunch of houses with him? >> Yes. >> Nice. I think um I think you kind of understood the marketing aspect a lot also from working with him >> and uh and I mean you even have kind of a similar process now right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well um you know initi I I do understand you know it took me maybe like a year to understand it's not

real estate business it's a marketing business. Yeah. You know >> it's all marketing. >> Yeah. If you're not marketing you're not getting any leads. You're not negotiating. You're not getting any deals. >> Mhm. >> Um, man, that's awesome. So, when did you um when did you branch off on your own? What what kind of what was your thought process at that point to say, you know what, it's time for me to go and do this on

my own now. >> Um, well, what what happened I remember I started going to a lot of networking event. I thought there are more people to know, more stuff to learn. Uh so I went to a lot of networking event and I met a lot of people and everyone telling to me you should start your own like well I don't know they're like well it's not so hard you could do it on your own and I

kind of thought about that they told me hey take yourself three months with everything in writing step by step what you're going to do and execute it. >> Yeah. Um yeah, so people like and it was like a few people who I saw they scale very high and I have like some respect. So I felt like well if I'm not going to do it I going to be like what is it? It's a loser or something.

So it was like well I have to do it like everyone telling me I should do it. >> Especially when it's people that you respect that's telling you that. Yeah. Then you know you feel like you need to live up to >> what they see in you know. >> Mhm. Feel like in life sometimes, you know, like we don't even see our own potential. Some it takes other people to see our potential to for us to

take action, you know, perhaps. And I think that's kind of what happened here, huh? >> Yeah. I agree. >> Yeah. That's awesome. Good for you. You were surrounded by the right people then. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. >> So, uh, what happened after that? You started you you went off on your own. Um, walk me through like the first couple of months working by yourself. Well, I remember when I start on my own, I literally was

so excited. I thought I gonna be so awesome and I could not sleep. I serious. I was sleep. >> I was so excited. I was I was sleeping like for I don't know what happened. Maybe some kind of hormone hits me because I was sleeping only four hours a day. I was like all alone thinking like about real estate. have so much like ideas in my head all my all this motivational podcast I was listening but

obviously you know market was quite sucks um and I was quite a little bit aggressive too right I I remember how I learned about leverage and I have some money so I thought to myself and I done some flips quite successfully uh when market was good so I still was want to I bought like few of them and it was like higher price point like it was RV like about 300 350 so my um note was

a little bit higher um bought as a as a flip and I thought I need to leverage I was so hungry but you know it was it time when I I bought it in the summer and a time when I need to sell it it was winter where it's like I listed it and there was 40,000 below asking price constantly you know >> so um >> they stay rentals but um >> overall All so it was

tough you know I was very excited but in reality it wasn't as good as good as smooth I still closed a lot of transaction but my fee was so small like $35,000 because they got didn't could not do so much stuff and it was quite tough market that was changing you know like after low interest rate there was high interest rate and everyone was start giving lower numbers >> guys today I want to talk to you

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his phone number is 409-5271115. So what year was that when you started going off on your own? 2021. >> Yeah, something like that. >> Something like that. Yeah. >> So, you started going off on your own and you're like you're doing your marketing, you're getting deals under contract and so most of your fees were low at the beginning, you would say. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> What do you think attributed to that? >> Um, what do

you mean? >> What do you think was the cost for the fees being so small at the beginning? >> Were they JV deals or what kind of deal? >> No, opposite. Um I think um I think it was opposite actually. Later on I met you >> and I started aging with you and actually my fee was bigger. >> My buyer pool was quite bad. >> Oh, it was your buyer pool. >> Yeah. And I wasn't really

focusing. I kind of like focusing to develop it but I I know I way better at acquisitions at this position. Like I I would be good at this position. I put my time to that >> but you just didn't you just never did it. It's just a lot of time to do both. Acquisition, disposition. >> Yeah, that's hilarious. So, you started working with me. You started making me money. >> Yeah. More money. >> Let's go. I

love that. Yeah. I've been I've been uh doing real estate here in Houston for a long long time. So, I've >> I'd say I have a pretty good buyers list. And so, I'm really glad to hear that you made more money working with me. That's awesome. We made a lot of money together. >> Yeah. >> When was uh when we started doing a lot of deals? >> I think two years ago in February. >> Yeah. Yeah.

What was that? 23. >> 2023. >> Something like that. Yeah, >> something like that. Yeah. But yeah, it's been 2 years, but and we've done a lot of transactions. I lost count. Um and uh a lot of those I've seen some of your feasts and I'm like, dang, Katarina's killing it. Yeah. No, I love it. Love to love to win with other people. I feel like that's where um you know there's more joy in in being

able to talk to friends and be able to do deals and um go out to dinner and hang out and just talk about real estate. You know, it's it's the stuff that we love. So, you know, during the day we're we're hustling, we're grinding, and then, you know, whenever it's time to go have fun and relax, we can we can do that, too. So, um what happened after you started like doing everything on your own? like

is there a specific marketing channel that you decided to go from the beginning? >> I mean I kind of flow to be honest. I went you know first three years in real real estate was um stressful. >> First few years it was stressful because a lot of stuff I done which I never done. So it was stressful for me you know like I bought like first flip after 6 months I was in real estate it because

like everyone was telling to me if you want to become an investor you should do action action action you can over on the line deals blah blah I like okay I need to do it >> yeah just take action >> I don't I don't have anything to lose >> anyway >> you have a lot to lose >> no now yes but back then I was like I don't have anything to lose it was good market so

I thought like regardless of what I would probably sell a deal. Maybe it was a small loss. I don't make any money, right? It was good market. So, >> that's true. >> Um, but um yeah, and when when I actually went uh solo, I maybe like first year and a half was still quite stressful, but then I was like on autopilot like finally I can breathe. >> Yeah. When when did you start buying and holding? >>

Oh, um I think year after I was in real estate. >> A year after. >> Yeah. >> Nice. >> Yeah. your your first property. >> Uh yeah, I bought one house. Uh my first house was it was kind of funny. Uh scenario. So um agent sent me a lead, right? He sent me a lead and I'm like, okay, it's interesting. He like look the seller doesn't want to move out of the house. So he want to

you buy it because he going through the worst he don't have very good credit score. He can refinance it. >> So he wanted to you buy it. But then you listed him back a house and in two years he going to buy it for 300k and I was supposed to contract it for 170. I'm like all right fine. So I walked to the house and I look at the the seller and I'm like oh I know

you and like I know you too. I like you security guy in HB. He like yeah you're the girl who holds them off the gym shopping in HB. >> Yeah. So he's still my tenant. >> No way. >> Yeah. That's hil. So, you bought the property from him? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so, so what's the agreement that you have? You're going to sell it back to him or what? >> Um, well, supposedly he's supposed to

bought it last year, but he obviously didn't. He kept joking every time like, "Hey, I'm going to win the lottery. I'm going to buy it back." I like, "Of course, >> sure. >> Of course." >> Yeah. So, he he sold you the property and then he stayed in the property. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's a tenant. >> That's so funny. >> Yeah. >> It's a small world sometimes, huh? >> Very small. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, it

worked out for you at the end, right? >> Mhm. >> You got a really good price on it. >> Yeah. Like 170. Still worth 300. >> Wow. That's a lot of work. >> And I only put the roof on it. >> That's all you did? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. And you didn't call Noah for the roof >> back then? I don't think he wasn't roofing. >> No. Yeah. >> It was like four years ago. >> That

was four years ago. Okay. All right. We'll we'll forgive this one. >> Okay. So, um this is your what kind of like your first kind of property that you bought to keep? Yes. So, it was my first and then I thought to myself, okay, they're saying like, you know, I need to also get out of the comfortable zone. So, I bought another uh house in uh Pasadena. >> Mhm. >> And I like, well, I going to

learn how to do everything. So, it's a house need absolutely everything. Convert garage to extra room, you know, like roof, siding, new AC. And um when I bought it, I kind of find out I thought garage doesn't includes in square feet. So I thought it's 200 square feet bigger than I thought. Then I start when I bought it, I find out that it's smaller than I thought. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and then I >> So

did you overpay? >> Yeah. Well, let let's tell you the story. And then what happened? Um I was uh and I have a friend of mine. He's a general contractor for a luxury house and and he like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do your model. We walk I give him a price. I think like on the interior I give him 35,000." >> Yeah. >> And he like, "Yeah, yeah, sure. I'm going to do it >> after

I bought it." He sent me a bait and writing and I look and like Jesus go, it's it's like you don't even swim a hammer and I need another $20,000 because he didn't write so much stuff. And he like, "No, I'm not going to do it." So well then um I bought another townhouse. So I bought three in the same time and I was like didn't have even much money like maybe 50,000 in my account >>

and uh and then what happened in Ukraine. >> Mhm. >> So I was so overwhelming. >> I was crying whole week dead serious. I was I I was like 100 pounds. I'm 123 lbs right now. Back then I was like 100. Can you imagine? >> Are you serious? >> I dead serious. It was crazy. >> And uh luckily I remember >> impacted you a lot then, huh? >> Yes. Yes. You kind of don't realize it, but

it does. >> But then I remember I was like >> I went to the Davis. I said I need to do something. I need to do something. He like chill out. Chill out. We're going to figure out something. Eventually we sold it. One of the investor he bought it just really just only helping me and he sold it back on the market. He just listed it and he make like maybe a thousand or two. >> A

thousand or two. >> Yeah. Yeah. He bought it for me for like exactly how much I was owning it. >> Yeah. >> And then he he decided he don't want to do a flip. He just put it on the market and he sold it maybe like he said he might make like $1,000. So I I exited one of the deal. Another was 10 and occupied it. So it was constantly covering my loan. And another one I

bought a townhouse in Vbury which I bought for 83 grand. I put 20 on it and I sold it for 175. >> Nice. >> I know. That was awesome. >> Yeah, sounds like it. >> Back then it was awesome. >> Yeah, it sounds like it. So, uh so walk me through uh the next steps. Like when did you start buying more properties for buy and hold? >> Well, I I didn't really was like in a position

to like, hey, right now I'm going to buy buy and hold. Like every year I buying a little bit, not like just I'm going to just do it. Some deals it just like you know when you in acquisition they make sense to you. Mhm. >> You think it's a good opportunity. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I mean, you might see you might see something where other people don't and you're like, "Okay,

this is a good one for for me to keep," right? >> What happened during um I know you said that you you're really sad during the whole war in Ukraine. Do you have family over there still? >> Yeah, my mom's still there. Uh but I mean you I think you don't realize it but it's uh how it happened right when war happened um there few weeks first few weeks there wasn't a communication >> so I'm saying

you gathering you thinking the worst right >> you're thinking the worst >> because there is was there was caught in the cable it wasn't really good communication like there sometimes you can reach somebody for three four days and you don't know what happened. So that is what's the worst. If I would be like, you know, calling my niece or my sister and like, oh no, I'm fine. Yeah, I'm on the ground, but like I'm fine. That

would be better. But like they're like sometimes three you calling everyone who you know and nobody doesn't answer for 4 days. So you kind of wondering and thinking the worst. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> So that is was really tough. And it was like >> that's what made you so upset. >> Yeah. And it was like for probably like first like two weeks, two months like there was really bad communication. >> M >> Yeah. >> But

it's gotten better since then. >> Yeah. Right now their internet and everything works fine. >> Okay. >> But back then like it wasn't really a signal. >> Yeah. Where's your mom live? And >> uh she lived uh 20 miles from Russia. So it's like Duchet, the small town next to the big town um Kharkov. It like the second biggest town in Ukraine. >> Wow. And it's 20 20 miles. Yeah, about that 20 maybe 25 miles you

can drive to Russia. People when it before war, people used to just go to Russia to fill up a gas and come back because it was so cheaper. >> Cuz it was cheaper in Russia. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Wow. I mean, but I'm sure there's now like uh some sort of like safety things or something for your mom like maybe like an like you said there some people were underground. >> No, not anymore. No, >>

not anymore. >> No. >> Okay. So, it's a little safer and stable now. Yeah, in the beginning like nobody doesn't knew where is who is who. Like imagine like back then um people were scared to just move or drive because uh when it's intersection nobody doesn't know do you Russian Ukraine. So if there's someone standing as a military they'll just shoot they don't care who you are. >> Wow. >> Because they're not they don't know who

you are. Yeah. >> So, a lot of people when they was flee, they was just like literally shot by the, you know, by the road. >> So, that was the scariest part. >> Right. Right. Cuz they you don't know who the enemy is. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Yeah. And also they put like um on a road like uh a bomb. Yeah. And stuff like that. >> Oh, they put bombs on the road. >> Wow. Yeah.

>> Is it just your mom that's over there or just like other family members? >> No, >> just your mom. Okay. >> I mean like Yeah. Well, most of my cousin even left. >> Really? Yeah. >> Yeah. I remember you just took a trip recently with your mom, huh? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You guys went over Europe somewhere? >> Yeah, we went to Croatia in Montenegro. >> Oh, very cool. How was that? >> Uh, I love

it. It was very nice. Food was amazing. I would for sure. They had that cream pa in Montenegro. Jesus God. When I find out about this dessert, I was eat it three times a day. >> Three times a day. It was phenomenal. >> Wow. I haven't tried it. I'll have to try that. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's cool. And I guess that's uh some of the uh some of the freedom that real estate provides you, right? >>

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think after I started being in real estate, um it's kind of happened like accidentally because I used to go to Ukraine, I thought like I flying through the Europe, let's me stay there to see some countries. But like every summer I was able to go there for few weeks or maybe even a month. Yeah, that's awesome. >> Yeah, still still was able to manage some, you know, um actually wholesale or even

like a flips because like uh I work with same contractor right now for two years. >> So I just kind of like trust him. Sometimes he didn't put the right color on my flooring. I like well I told you put the light oak and you put like a gray >> because it's probably was on sale or something. >> I like But >> yeah, but it's okay. Yeah, you have to be particular right now. I like no

whole decision. You need to text me before. >> Yeah, it's got it's all got to be the same. >> Yeah. No, that's awesome. >> Uh what's the time difference between here in Ukraine? >> It's 8 hours. >> 8 hours. >> Yeah. Ahead. >> Ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you're working typically like 9:00 a.m. Here's what, like 5:00 p.m. over there. Something like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Nice. That's not a bad time. >> Yeah. Well,

in Europe, if I was traveling to Europe, it would be, I think, six or seven hours, >> depending on where you're at. Like UK is 6 hours, Paris is like seven. >> Well, well, you you make it seems like I was really working. >> I was maybe like answering some texts or emails just to get the deal flowing and doing like I, you know, >> you're probably you're probably texting me like, "Hey, hurry up and sell

this deal for me." All right. I want to get paid already, Jose. a hour or two. >> Yeah. >> I mean like not really >> not really >> not really like uh hustle and hustling but I mean of course like working like still answering the mail or text or campaign like a lot of times like leads can come in into you inbound leads. So you still I usually would be able to still close or acquire like

one or two deals while I travel. >> Really? >> Mhm. >> One or two while you're traveling? >> Yeah. >> Wow. That's pretty good. >> Yeah. Do you do that because of um the marketing systems that you've had now or what? >> Yeah. >> I think most of your deals that you get you get from real estate agents, huh? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, normally it's uh just a matter of analyzing the deal with

the agents, kind of figuring out what the numbers look like. Um and then you make him an offer. >> Yeah. >> Pretty. And for the most part, I'd say maybe even agents might have photos for the property, right? >> Yeah. So it's pretty easy to analyze the deals then. >> Yeah. And it's not a lot of emotional kind of negotiating that you have to do. >> Yes. Correct. >> It is or it isn't. >> No, it's

it's not. I mean the good part you have to be quite professional, right? Because you deal with real estate agent. You know, you you need to know how to write contract, what kind of you what you can ask, what you can't ask. But otherwise, yeah, you know, usually it's not about like like seller crying on the phone. >> Yeah, I did a lot of direct to seller marketing. So, it's a lot of crying on the phone.

>> Yes. >> No, that's cool. What have you been up to lately? You know, maybe like this year, last year. >> Uh, well, overall I was um >> we were still doing like a lot of wholesales last year, right? >> Yeah. Um what I was trying to do I was just try to get like a virtual assistant you know since I have a rental so I was trying to like teach my virtual assistant to manage it

because I don't want to do it >> and if I want to like grow in this position you know right now I have a building account so like delegate because I I can't see myself because I manage them myself those rentals if I going to have way more units like and still do a flip and wholesale Well, actually only I doing it, so I just need to delegate. >> Yeah. Um, you just met Richard, Richard Marquez.

He uh he owns 39 units. Um, I I really recommend this application that he showed me. It's called Stessa. >> Oh, never heard about that. >> Me neither. And so you're able to you're able to classify every transaction that comes into your business into each property. So you can have like appropriate bookkeeping for every property. So you can run your profit and loss statements, stuff like that. Um, that's like one of my biggest headaches always is

bookkeeping, right? And like in QuickBooks, it's not as easy, I'd say. You know, I mean, for the people that use it, it's probably super easy, but Stesa, I kind of like it kind of seems like it's built for all that. You should check. >> So, it's like accounting tool. >> Yeah. And I think I don't know if it's pro. I mean, I'm sure it's property management, too. I'd have to ask him. >> Yeah, you should ask.

>> Yeah. >> So, I'll call him right now. Let me pick up the phone and call on Richard real quick. Hey, Richard. Uh, can you tell me? >> Yeah. No. Uh, that'd be something that something really good to to find out for sure. >> Well, luckily a lot I switched my TPA. It's um, uh, you know, national one >> and I pay them monthly fee and they're doing for me bookkeeping. I like >> Oh, it's too

much. Yeah. >> Otherwise, it's a lot. >> Yeah. How much do you pay for bookkeeping a month? >> $80. 80 bucks. >> What? >> That's what I thought because I was used to pay for a book bookkeeping app like 30 something. So I thought like well I pay 80 and they do everything for me. >> Yeah, that's Wait, that's really cheap. >> I know. >> What uh what company is that? >> Um Richard Pinsley something like

that. >> Okay. Damn, I'm paying a lot more. You're going to have to >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Connect me. >> But uh Awesome. So, what's um what's 2025 look like for you? What have you been doing this year? >> Well, >> because I think last year we we were still working a lot together. We were doing a lot of wholesales, you know. >> I saw you do flips, all this stuff. But I think this

year we've kind of >> gone our own paths, you know. Um what have you been up to this year? >> Well, um I still trend in same amount transaction. it I felt like that year maybe I kind of didn't didn't realize till like right now it maybe was a little bit slower slower um than last year because that year actually um from all of the deals I only terminated like five. So literally any deal with uh

contracted we sold it >> this year. >> Yeah. >> But because last year I guess like I have way higher termination. I think I terminated like 15 or 18. Um, so it's a lot. >> Mhm. >> But I wasn't able was to access it like you know sell it. But nowadays like I guess like diso batter but they're not as much deals I think. But to be honest I didn't thought about that. I was just really

I was try to focus on spiritual level. >> Yeah. I know it's kind of sound like that, but I was like, you know, like was just tried to be spiritual and found my own peace. >> What do you mean by that? >> Um, well, there is a lot of I think for me it was a lot of um what I noticed I didn't like to be bored. Yeah. Right. So, I was used to be that person

like if someone call me like yes, go let's have fun, you know. Um, and like I also was want to action and then I kind of find out it's probably not as good. I need to be like, you know, sometimes like you know those days when you like sit down and it's like like evening and you're by yourself and you still feel comfortable with yourself. So I was challenging myself. I don't even travel much s besides

I went to Europe on purpose. >> Yeah. >> Because I told myself, Katarina, you're going to sit down home and talk to the demons. Talk to your demons. >> Yeah, it's worked fine. I I love it. I I discover a lot. >> What are your demons saying? >> Well, I'm on the right path. >> You're on the right path. >> I'm on the right path. >> Yeah, they went away now. >> Yes. >> I'm glad to

hear it. >> No, that's good. Uh I've seen a lot of like I've seen a lot of like fix and flipping more than that you've been doing this year, huh? >> No, I just I don't like post a lot of stuff. So I don't, you know, I don't post like my closings and I don't post I don't post my fix and flip. I kind of start doing it even though last year I told you I did

eight like uh three in the partnership with flip and five I hold. So but I remodeled them, right? >> Um but um but I didn't post it but this year I decided like it's not so bad. Like I just shoot like one pictures, you know, here we go. You I don't even put much description. and I like here you go like or like today done something. >> Yeah. But I think I think that's also I I

think that's also helpful Katarina because when you're showing what you're doing, you know, it attracts more of what you want. And so if you're showing look at the real estate that I'm flipping, blah blah blah blah blah, you know, people are going to think about you the next time they have a deal and they're going to say, hey, let me call Katarina because I know she's a buyer. I know she can flip. this is the area

that I saw her in. Um, so I think it's always good to stay top of mind, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> What would you say about that? >> Yes. Same. Like, of course, I know how marketing works. Like I have some uh people who like agents, they saying, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. You're like uh my favorite, but then like after 3 months like >> they kind of forget about me and stuff like that."

So marketing also works. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They they will always forget about you if you're not staying top of mind. >> Yeah. >> Is your system that you have still working for reaching out to agents? >> Yeah. >> But you said like it's uh it's just kind of like slowed down this year. I mean there's been a lot of changes this year, right? >> Yeah. A lot of people leaving. A lot of people just

don't have it and um yeah. So kind of you can see it. >> Where do you where have you seen more of the slower side like the the buyers being more slow or the sellers being more slow? Both. >> Both. >> I mean, sellers still not really realistic on the prices. No. >> Sellers are what? >> Not really realistic on the price. >> They're not sticking to the price. >> Not realistic. >> They're unrealistic. >> Yeah.

I mean, like it seems since last year, but to be honest, uh, we know right now it's a little tougher market. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. Um, I would also say like with like interest rates kind of just being like up and down and a lot of uncertainty in politics this year. >> Mhm. >> I I've even seen like things like, you know, even because I don't really think that tariffs like drastically

impacted anything really. But just the talk of tariffs was really what kind of >> gave a lot of people like this uneasy feeling, you know? Yeah. And then because of that like I remember at some point buyers were like oh well tariffs are going up so you know cost of materials is going to go up. They did go up but like it like some things went up only for a couple of weeks you know and then

they came back down and >> it was more the uneasiness of you know politics taking a toe into like real estate that really kind of like made people not want to go >> as hard this year from what I saw. What do you think about that? >> Uh, well, I think a lot of people know that it's um a cycles and I think a lot of people just, >> you know, like maybe we're in the middle

and some people thinking like maybe I wait like another, >> you know, 3 months when it's going to be a winter better deal or I'm waiting next year. It could be possibility there. But also you know there of course um um just people who's maybe had experience or like everyone talk it's tough for market some people just don't want to do it too. >> Yeah. Where do you where do you see the market going in 2026?

>> It doesn't sound excited. >> Why not? Well, um yeah, I met with a um yesterday uh 10, it was like I think eight investor and two bankers who've been like 20 slash 30 years in real estate. >> Yeah. >> Um they see they telling they probably will be see they probably will be see first is foreclosures like we're going to see foreclosures more and they saying it's not the bottom. I mean I I it's looks

I probably agree to that. >> Yeah. >> I kind of I kind of agree with that too. >> Well, I I just hope with instation. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. It's like a slow kill. >> It is a slow kill. You know, like a really good indicator always is like if you compare >> the amount of foreclosures that we have >> right now versus last year, you know, that's kind of like a trend to watch.

And then also um something else um seeing how many people are behind on their payments is also pretty troubling. I was talking to someone that works for a like a mortgage servicing company >> and they are seeing a lot more people falling behind on their loans. So >> I heard that too. >> I definitely think we're not at the bottom yet. I think uh >> uh it's going to be a slow painful kill and but you

know I think the people that can last through through this journey I think are going to be able to come out really profitable on the other end. So what is your plan to profit on the other end Katarina? >> Well I think in uh my strategy just to buy every year a little bit. It's nothing like I going to try to time it the market or anything like that. >> Yeah. Um so my idea obviously found

a cheaper um uh money right so right now I saving >> and um I looking to pay two properties off and create line of credit so it's going to be cheaper to me to have a hard money loan >> and like that if I decided to keep as a rental you know buy something keep as a rental typically it takes you three to four months right because you have to seize till you refinance um you buy

and then 3 months you put your repairs, put the tenant and refinance. But the I don't want to like oh well I guess three will be okay a year but I don't want to buy a lot of real estate because you still need to maintain it. You have to have emergency funds and stuff like that >> and it's a lot of work. You've been a landlord, you know, it's it's a lot of work. >> I hate

it. >> Yeah. >> I do not enjoy it. Um on my properties here in Houston, I was like, you know what, I'm selling everything. >> Yeah. I only have the ones in South Texas now. But um this idea to get a line of credit with properties that are paid off. Where did it come from? >> Talking to Adam and >> No, no, no. No. Uh >> shout out Robert and Adam, by the way. Capital Bank. They

are amazing commercial bankers. Um you can reach out to Katarina or me if you want a connection to an amazing commercial banker. >> Yeah. Um well, no. So basically what happened I have one condominium which um I kind of thought to myself because you know it's not warrantable so they only give like 65% on it and I was like well maybe it's just easier to me to pay it off. >> Yeah. So then I started thinking

well if I pay it off like oh I can create line of credit and I kind of started kind of thinking like that and then like I know there kind of like you know when you put something there more stuff happen like then I started talking to another investor they saying they done similar stuff like that so like well it makes sense >> you know especially if you have a gap between a project technically you're cash

flowing >> you know so I thought it's kind of nice and also you don't need to take full amount you know just a little bit So, I feel like it's just makes sense. >> Yeah. >> And it's not as expensive. >> Are you planning to maintain? >> Are you planning on getting a line of credit with uh Capital Bank? >> Yeah. >> Very cool. Yeah. >> Guys, if you're doing business in Houston and you don't have

a great title company, I highly recommend you guys to use Natalie Mario with Black Label Title. They were awarded the best title company in 2026 by Houston Latino Magazine. Um, but I think what's truly impactful of working with Natalie is that her title company can do pass through funding for A to B closings. If you're an investor, this is very important to you because it it means that you don't you don't need to have your own

funds to be able to finance an A to B closing on a double close. You can use the funds from the C to B to fund A to B transaction. If you don't understand what that means, reach out to Natalie. She can explain it all to you. More importantly, you can make a very big assignment fee without your buyer or your seller finding out what that fee is. So, it's a great opportunity to get with a

investor friendly auto company. They also do blind huts, assignments, noations subject to wraps. And so, they close in all Texas counties, right? So, they they can do e signing, you know, that you don't even have to have a closing in the title company, right? They do CE classes. Um, listen guys, if you're wholesaling or you're investing in Texas, you need to call Natalie Marrio with Black Label Title. And um, the link for Natalie is going to

be in the show notes. So, the number for Natalie Marrio is 9364428486. Make sure you mention Josu Janas with Pick up the phone podcast. If you're a real estate investor anywhere in the United States, you need to listen up. Gethhardmoney.com is a free platform for real estate investors. You can find local hard money, connect with the lender directly, request term sheets, and chat all in one single place. What I really like about the website is that

they have free tools. They have built-in AI comping. They can they have flip property calculators. They have cash to close calculators. Everything's 100% free. You don't even need to sign up to be able to use their calculators, which I find extremely useful whenever I'm running numbers on a property. Um, so it's going to be free all the time, no cost ever. So if you're investing and you need a lender connections or you need deal analysis tools,

it's a it's a no-brainer, right? It's a no-brainer. Sign up. So the way to sign up is you go to get hardmoney.com and the link is going to be in the show notes. >> What what is their fees like whenever it comes to like actually withdraw money from them? >> I don't know. Should I tell? No, I'm saying to be honest, I don't know. Is it just for me deal or for everyone on the deal? And

I and and we I I didn't done it. I didn't hop it. I just paid off my uh condominium last week on it. I think it was 12. >> Mhm. >> So whether it was last week was 12 or a week before. And uh I was like, Adam, come on. Let's get that line of credit. Line of credit. I keep following up for him every day. So I'll tell you when we done it how it's actually

going to look like. >> Okay. So there's going to be a line of credit on your condo that you're going to get. Oh, very. >> And then I and then I have I bought a townhouse in energy corridor and I um >> run my own rehab again Capital Bank um >> they funded to me my purchase price 75% so I only own 75,000 so I thinking and it's worth 220 >> on which one? >> Townhouse. >>

On the townhouse. >> Yeah. So I thinking what I going to do I'll eventually you know pay it off because it's only 75,000 I own it and um you know it's worth 220 so maybe I would be able to pull back 170 something like which is I think they will give you 75 80% >> credit line on the asset. >> Yeah. So I think like I would be able to pull it but um that's what my

next step >> Yeah. >> would be. >> Yeah. That's a That's a great step. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people even do these credit lines to be able to do hard money. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so you can >> use those credit lines and let other people borrow that money and then make points on that money. Uh >> you know, borrow like lend it to someone at like a 12% interest rate. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's if you have a couple more because you typically need a little bit more money to do that, you know. >> Well, right now I would not want to be a a lender. I think like there will be great possibility really found a good deals. >> Yeah. >> So like it's probably still their time to buy some rentals or a flip something like that to buy. Um there are sometimes really awesome deals coming up

like and it's nowadays you can well you even before you was able to see but I more and more I see the houses which doesn't need much repairs but people willing to sell it on a high discount. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So like man it's only like only 10 $15,000. Let's go. And you're still getting discounts like you know because it's everything percentage wise quite deep discount. So like, well, that's a good deal. >> Yeah, I

agree. And there's going to be more deals coming probably in 2026. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, what are you um >> what are you doing next? What's next for you? >> Well, as I mentioned to you, my just keep consistency. I want to do consistently. I don't know about like next year's like is it is it right now only because of the winter we seeing mark you need to put more marketing, less deals or it's uh

going to be whole next year like that? But um as I mentioned to you what I want to do, I want to create cheaper cheaper costs, you know, for money and uh just keep buying real estate. >> Yeah. >> But it's just so much more room to breathe. Like right now that townhouse, my payments on it $450 a month. >> $450 bucks. >> I own $75,000 and they charge me only 7.2 interest rate. So I holding

a townhouse and I'm paying only 420. Okay. HOA they're 460 and all that. and and I have insurance and probably taxes. So, it's like $1,000 for me as a flipper. Like, man, that's amazing stuff, right? So, I like >> What's the rent on it? >> Um, I think it's like maybe like 1800s. I I don't know. I don't plan to like >> like rent it. >> No, >> I mean, I thought to live there myself to

be honest. >> Yeah, of course. >> Don't Don't tell it's a capital because you're not going to live here. No, no, no. Of course not. >> Well, they actually watch your podcast. >> They do. >> Cut it off, please. >> Yeah, we'll cut it off. >> We'll talk We'll tell the editor to cut it off. >> Well, I it's not going to be cut off. >> To be honest, I don't plan to live there a long

time because me as an investor, like you're constantly, you know, you found new deals. So, like you steps growing by a little bit too, right? You live for a year, then you found another better deal. Like, oh my gosh, I want to live there. I want to live there. So, you keep moving everywhere. >> Absolutely. Yeah. just like your condo, you know. >> Yeah. So, you kind of do also like um house hack. Well, to be

honest, I think what it's like very conservative next year, what I thinking about, but if you look a little bit more like a like I would say overall where I want to go, >> um I thought about maybe do new builds. >> I thought that would be open up new door or go commercial. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I remember you called me about that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Did you ever reach out to Jake? >>

No. >> No. Jake's a great resource for for commercial, especially in in warehouses. >> I don't I don't think you sent me contact. >> No. >> I sent it to you. >> No. >> We talk and then you never I think you just forgot. >> I probably forgot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I'll send it to you right now. >> Okay. >> I'm just kidding. We'll do it right after the podcast. Well, commercial or um you

know new builds like I thought like new bill is kind of cool especially like I don't have anything on my personal personal name so I thought maybe like eventually >> build something new for you. >> Yeah but buy land cash and then develop it and you know and get it on my own name. I know you know maybe even like duplex or anything I kind of like thinking about that. Yeah, >> but like those medical field

really attractive >> the what >> like medical field, you know, because medical field keep growing. They keep they're huge development stuff like that. So like I thought like well >> you're talking about like the the medical department like the medical area of Houston. >> Yeah, it's keep growing. >> Yeah, I know. >> So I'm saying like maybe like so their price points like a half a million to, you know, and up to develop. And I've seen

some really nice duplexes, triplexes, quaplexes over there in that area. Yeah. >> And if you were to I mean I'd say like those are some going to be some of the best tenants out there. >> You know, sometimes medical students or you know, someone that's going and doing their residency. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're going to have really great tenants. >> But how cool would be, you know, like just to know you're building it. And so I'm

saying like that's would be like my it would be another like access strategy, right? to learn like new skills. >> Yeah. >> To build something. So, I thought about that like >> between new construction and commercial, what do you think is going to land on your plate first? >> Um, I think uh first will be probably new development and then commercial. >> Yeah, >> I think so. >> Need development? >> Yeah. >> Mainly because you want

to do it for yourself, right? >> Um, no. I just feel like right now nobody it's not commercial not as excited. >> Yeah. >> Like you know I might be so hesitated because like commercial right now a little bit suffering. So I would like I don't know should I do commercial? >> Yeah. >> Maybe I'll wait a little bit. >> Some people are bleeding for sure. >> Yeah. So I like >> you know when it's going

to be booming it's easy going to be go to commercial. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. So maybe like that. >> Wait a little bit for for the boom to come back up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, that'll be good. That'll be good. Well, um, this has been really fun. Uh, I think you are a great buyer. So, if anyone that's watching this podcast or listening to it online, if they want to connect with you to

send you a deal, um, or maybe to, you know, attract good people to you and, you know, maybe do some JVS or something, >> how can they how can they get a hold of you? >> Uh, well, they can contact me, DM me in Instagram. On my Instagram, it's K T I T N K O. >> That's it. >> I don't want to give my direct phone number. >> No, of course not. There's not a uh

You don't have to do that. What about Facebook? Do you have Facebook? >> Yes, it's Katarina Titanka. >> Kina. Okay. So, reach out to Katarina on Instagram or on Facebook if you guys have a deal. um you were really, you know, after and I' I'd love to get your uh feedback on this. Uh what was your experience like doing this podcast? I know you were maybe a little bit shaky on it. >> Uh I I mean

it's quite quite comfortable, but I feel like I already give you a whole my life story. >> That's the whole point of it, Katarina. >> Whole my life story. >> Absolutely. That's >> that's usually I tell those stories usually on my date but I just repeat everything what I talking on my date. >> Next time you go on a date now you can just send them this episode and say hey here go and watch this if

you want to know about me >> if you if you like me after this episode. Okay going to go with you on a date. >> I love it. I love it. Well thank you so much for being here Katarina. I really enjoyed it and um yeah till next time. >> Likewise. Thank you. >> Thank you.